Satnav - TomTom vs Garmin

Martin Brown wrote on 30/09/2020 :

A quick glance at the screen takes no time at all, when conditions suit you being able to do that. I find the sat nav's layout of the upcoming road very useful, when on a strange back road, so I can see the sharp bends coming up and hidden junctions.

My built in has a virtual button, which you can press to have it avoid its best planned route for the next x miles.

We?ve unearthed another one well done Fred.

I agree. Anyone who cannot cope with reading the instrumentation when driving should employ a chauffeur or use public transport.

Well, unless there is any genuine reason why you do that (you are keeping another busy junction clear) then again you will be both 'forcing in' (albeit legally) as you exit the roundabout (holding those you have just 'overtaken' back) and generated more traffic on the roundabout in general (potentially slowing other traffic).

More importantly, do you not think others would have considered doing the same (and I'm sure others do) but choose not to do so because it's 'unfair' and the *only* reason you gain advantage is because most other people *don't* do it?

It's funny how people only do such things because they are hiding away in their tin boxes and generally wouldn't (dare to) do it in say a cinema queue or shop checkout for fear of being seen as the 'cheats' they were and possibly being knocked out?

Cheers, T i m

Compared to Tim doing his checking of cars he claims are jumping the queue a quick glance at a satnav to brief you is sensible.

And they would probably fail the 'Hazard perception' part of the current test (well, the chances are they would fail the whole test, most being given them in the war).

Good / safe driving is all about observation and planning ... so if you are going along at 10 mph in a motorway traffic queue it's *very easy* to spot a car diving out of the queue in front or even behind (if you ever use your mirrors), see it fly up the sliplane and watch it come down the other side as you pass under the junction yourself. You can then also watch it drive right to the end of the slip lane [1] and then bully their way back into the queue (as many people can spot that 'body language' and will have bunched up).

The same applies to doing anything that may distract you from the actual driving (like checking your instruments, mirrors or GPS) you 'plan' to do it between the high activity bits.

Cheers, T i m

Pillock anyone given a licence in the war would be about 90 now not many 90 year olds drive.

Which is such an obvious feature. No idea if HERE maps on Android does that.

Google Maps ?

I know my Garmins didn't. Nor did the Tom Tom the company car I had for a bit.

Use Maps Me.

Bill

And I got and applied the 'mod' tonight (putting the updated map on an SD card) and it seems to work, as in it looks good indoors.

I noticed there was a also a cycle route map option and gave that a go and it also seems to work (looks like the National cycle network routes).

I'm not sure how things like POI's work with these maps (and they seem to), are they just a separate datafile of grid locations that are logically overlayed over the main map?

Cheers, T i m

Generally yes.

When I worked in logistics software (hence my frustration at some features modern satnavs lack) one of the features of the software was a csv file with "avoid points" in it. If you had that file in the map data directory, the routing algorithm wouldn't use the roads indicated by the start/finish points. It could also have a "time barred" field, so (for example) lorries wouldn't be routed into London during the hours of the lorry ban.

Part of the business of the company was preparing custom avoid files for specialist hauliers (low bridges, tunnels, etc).

One of the first projects I worked on was a new feature to overlay the matrix map onto a JPG of the OS map. Given how far we got, it's interesting that modern navigation software doesn't. Which I'm guessing is down to the eye-watering amount OS wanted for licensing the images.

And don't get me started on 10m postcode geodata ....

I use a 2008 Garmin Nuvi 200 got off Freecycle in non-working condition. (Power connector had broken off the PCB). According to the manual it takes 4 hours to charge and can run for "up to 4 hours". Presumably the brightness needs to be turned low for this.

Last Christmas I bought a new UK/Europe map for it, and last week I installed a new NmH battery.

There is no wireless connection so no roadworks info, but I can follow diversion signs for those and the unit recalculates wherever necessary. I have the volume set on 50% which is fine for me. Also North-up display to agree with a paper map.

I have set it for fastest journey time rather than shortest distance, and avoid toll roads and ferries.

I'm hoping the 'free' updated map will work (in practice) on this one. ;-)

I'm in the process of doing that on the one (Nuvi 255W) I've been playing with. It said it was charging but I saw no sign of any battery status and there was no suggestion of it holding any charge (instantly powered off on pulling the USB connector).

I opened the unit and removed the battery (easy) and peeled the outer layer off the battery to get to the BMS and noted there is no voltage at all on the battery (and so probably why the BMS wouldn't allow it to charge)?

Was your battery about £10 ooi?

Yeah, all our Garmins have been pretty clear to hear.

I change that depending on what I'm doing. If I know the shortest won't take me though a big city and I'm not in a hurry I'll take that.

Apart from the Dartford crossing I don't think there are many of either this way and I'm happier to pay the toll than going deeper into London (especially with all the expanding congestion charging zones). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

Cool. ;-)

I was looking at some of the Postcode files the Adrian linked to and it sorta looked understandable. Should be home from home for you! ;-)

I think some of our double deckers busses could do with their services. ;-(

Oh?

Yes, I heard that was the issue when speaking to Garmin T/S on a mapping / cost / availability issue.

Ooops. ;-(

I've always loved the whole technology and usefulness to me of the GPS network(s).

I think my first was the Garmin GPS II, then III+, V, Quest, Quest II, StreetPilot 3, StreetPilot 2610 and now my Nuvi's.

In one way it was a shame watching the models become more 'commercialised', less technical. I think on the likes of the II, III+ and to some degree the V, you could configure the main screen to display any 9 of the 30 or so fields that were available (like ETA, dusk, compass, altitude, speed etc).

Self powered with 4 x AA meant you could take it camping and just have a stock of batteries (or could buy them when out) or use rechargeable's and tell it which you were using to set the 'Low battery' voltage thresholds. Or you could use an external PSU. You could even disconnect the built in aerial and reveal a BNC connector and attach an external / remote powered one, giving you better signal inside say a truck with an overhanging bodywork (like a 'Luton' box van).

Good ole tekky days, if you were a tekky. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

Actually that's a bit unfair - you can overlay Google Maps onto Google Earth. But I haven't seen a display which looks down on an OS map while navigating. Maybe because we're more used to the "road ahead" view, which isn't mirrored in maps ?

When we first got the data file (and paid a fucktonne for it) and tested it, the routing didn't change. In the end I discovered that the 10m data was simply the 100m data with an extra "0" on the end. And the Post Office were surprisingly upfront about this. This is over 20 years ago ... our MD had a F2F meeting with their commercial department who couldn't see the problem.

I'm not a cynic for fun - it's long and bitter experience.

Magellan ?

Yeah, I got that was what you were referring to.

Possibly.

Cheeky barstewards! ;-)

How strange.

;-)

Owned GPS? No, only had the Garmins, some unbranded cheap thing as an experiment and the TomTom I was given, sorted, tried and then stuck in a drawer somewhere.

Mate used his StreetPilot III in cars that had GPS's installed (he was a garage owner so when driving customer cars) and used in parallel with the fitted one when flying. ;-)

This is the top line of one of the postcode spreadsheets:

Headings pcd pcd2 pcds dointr doterm oscty ced oslaua osward parish usertype oseast1m osnrth1m osgrdind oshlthau nhser ctry rgn streg pcon eer teclec ttwa pct nuts statsward oa01 casward park lsoa01 msoa01 ur01ind oac01 oa11 lsoa11 msoa11 wz11 ccg bua11 buasd11 ru11ind oac11 lat long lep1 lep2 pfa imd calncv stp

Values AL1 1AA AL1 1AA AL1 1AA 199002 199405 E10000015 E58000666 E07000240 E05004803 E43000079 1

I'm guessing that's all straight forward to you (I can spot the lat / long headings and values for that postcode near the bottom). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Tue, 29 Sep 2020 20:12:51 +0100, Scott snipped-for-privacy@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote: [snip]

Amongst all the arguments about whether looking at a screen is a safe way to drive, I recount this:

Yesterday I had the TomTom switched off (no postcode for the destination). We were driving along an 'A' road outside the built up area and as we reached the derestriction sign after a couple of miles, my friend said 'Did you realise this was a 40 mph speed limit?'

I can say with confidence that had the TomTom been running I would have noticed the speed limit.

I know within a couple of hours someone will say this proves I should have been looking at the road and the signs - which I accept - but the fact remains that on this occasion satellite navigation would have kept me right - a net benefit in my submission.

(I missed the odometer change to 75,000 miles, which proves I was not obsessing with the instrumentation.)

My Garmin C510 c2008 certainly had an option to divert from current suggested route. It also allowed one waypoint to be entered so I could force a preferred route of call in on someone/something on my way without having to re-enter.

It also allowed POI's to be entered. I guess Google want folk to search for their advertised led entries.

I've not seen anything like that on my Here! or Google maps.