I have been toying with the idea of finally getting a 5" modern car
satnav but am finding it a bit tricky distinguishing between the specs.
In particular I can't spot from the published data what there is about
the 3597 (£235) making it nearly twice the price of the 2595 (£125).
Plots supermarkets chains and McDonalds seems to be it.
Deleting features like bluetooth seems to even make the price go up!
Somewhere in between are a bunch of others like 2597 (£160). What I
would really like to know is which ones or rival models offer the best
price performance in terms of realtime traffic congestion avoidance.
What do others recommend based on real world experience?
Which model(s) offer the best price performance for mostly UK and a
small amount of Western Europe? Thanks for any enlightenment
Gradually it seems that sat nav maps and real time data are going
subscription based and I forsee a future where its on your phone and you pay
part of your contract for the updates etc for the satnav bit of it. I guess
there will always be stand alone ones but maybe for specilised usage.
Certainly the European sats that are about to go up will be backed up with
terrestial based signals for awkward to navigate indoor areas etc, ad I
suspect it will all get very complicated!
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Peter Crosland" < firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote in message
In many ways its quite the reverse with sat nav maps
with a move to life time free map updates now.
Can't see that ever happening while ever google.maps is
free and while ever Apple continues to include their mapper
for free with their itoys. They have just now included their
office equivalent for free with their itoys too.
Maybe, but I can't see much of a market there now
that any decent smartphone has gps capability now.
Very specialised in fact like surveyors etc maybe.
It isnt even hard to make your smartphone fully waterproof with a case now.
And likely very precise navigation to the precise
point on a shelf in the supermarket etc too.
But handled auto for the user like the complications
in the mobile phone system are.
I don't have a smart phone but what I do have is two hand held GPSs for
hill walking in addition to a Tom Tom to get me to my start point.
The now rather elderly Garmin etrex vista has map screen that is
completely useless as a map should a map be required but it does what I
required of it by providing a record of where and how far I had walked,
how long it took and the amount of ascent. The go-to facility makes
navigation all too easy but that means my traditional navigation skills
are getting more than a little rusty which can't be a good thing. The
Garmin has removable AA batteries and battery life good enough to last
for a couple of days walking should I ever manage two days on the trot
and I carry a pair of spare batteries as a matter of course.
The memorymap adventurer 2800, a more recent purchase turned out to be
an unmitigated disaster. The one advantage over the Garmin was a 1:50000
map on the map screen but it has a built in battery with a battery life
of significantlyless than 8 hours so even for an old fart like me at the
end of a walk the GPS is dead and absolutely no use as a navigation
device. There are other irritating quirks such as losing the last
segment of the track if not saved before turn-off and I have yet to find
how to extract amount of ascent from the track. The only reason I still
have it is that I can't decide whether to give it away or to get some
satisfaction by addressing it with my sledge hammer before consigning it
to the bin.
The latest Garmin handhelds do detailed mapping as well so if I ever get
another I will probably return to that company. Better the devil you know...
Incidentally one of the reasons I opted for a Garmin nuvi for the car
was because it was the only one on the market that took grid references.
Tom Tom requires latitude and longitude which is a bit more of a faff
and easier to get wrong but it is at least extremely accurate.
I am happy with my Tom Tom and have no plans to change it any time soon.
I suppose hill walking is a specialised usage.
I happened to have a discussion with an Ordnance Survey surveyor a few
years ago when he was at work. IIRC he had a differential unit in the
boot of his car which was needed to get the accuracy of position of his
hand held pole mounted GPS down to 2cm. He was having trouble getting
the required accuracy with just a bit of tree canopy above him and
unless his unit told him he had that accuracy he could do any surveying.
In your dreams. The OS surveyor needed a nearby base station to get that
sort of accuracy and as a general rule GPSs need a good view of the sky
to get a lock on sufficient satellites.
I have had two Garmin GPSs for walking, both have been very good.
The first (a GPS40, I think) I purchased 18 years ago when they were
still something of a novelty outside marine use. It had no map, but
recorded my tracks and provided a grid reference to locate on a map. It
still worked but was less than weather resistant after forgot I had left
it on the roof of the car and drove off.
It was replaced by a GPS60, just the basic world map, which is of little
use for navigation, but it will record the tracks of over a month of
walking as well as a thousand mile drive from London to Italy. The usb
connection used to download my tracks has become loose and temperamental
but so far that seems a feeble excuse to ditch it for a new one. When I
do it will likely be replaced by an updated version of the same.
For driving I have an M&S branded satnav with some variant of windows OS
and Navteq maps, there had to be a reason it was £50 in a sale: for
finding an address in an unfamiliar town it does the job— provided, that
is, the address is recognised. For finding my way to said destination it
is not to be trusted: it has sent me across green fields and streams in
Italy, on strange detours from motorway through villages in France, and
as for England, I know better and it is best ignored.
As I mentioned earlier, CoPilot (for Android) takes OS grid references.
There's even a free version that's the same as the full version except
voice-guidance is disabled after 14 days.
Which Nuvi model is that? I thought only the Nuvi 300 did OS grid
references - current models only do lat/long. Presumably Garmin don't
think it's worth catering for every country's local grid system.
I can't remember the number but it would have been purchased a long time
ago, perhaps as long as 10 years ago. <checks records) 2006. The Garmin
Vista was 2004 and the Tom Tom 2010. I can't remember what model the
nuvi was but it cost the earth - £300. The Tom Tom was less than half
that price. Both at Halfords.
All the smartphones can do that now. I use MapMyWalk for that myself.
I don’t find that myself, but then I have always had excellent
navigation skills and never have bothered with maps and
compasses etc because I don’t need them.
I do find the modern smartphones very handy for stuff like
marking where its easy to get thru a barbed wire fence or
for the photo of the obscure track that heads off from the
main track in dense scrub etc that I hardly ever visit.
And for stuff like where the car has been left in very dense
scrub coming down a ridge line with the car at the bottom
of the ridge to minimise the farting around picking where
to head down off the ridge in the trackless scrub when the
car isnt visible from the top of the ridge etc when you have
never been there before.
I find that the smartphone lasts fine for that.
But would work fine for me because I would have it off most
of the time and only turn it on when I needed to use it.
Tho I normally have it on all the time because I listen to
podcasts while walking and use it to record where I have
been, more for academic interest than for navigation.
I just don’t ever need any map assistance except for
the situation where you need to see where the cliff
face ends etc instead of walking it to find out etc.
The only thing I have to watch out of is that I have told
it to stop recording when I get back to the car. It would
be better if it worked out for itself which bits were in the
car and do that auto.
That’s easy in MapMyWalk, its just one alternate display of the walk.
That's one very big advantage with the smartphones, you
can just try one of the other walk logging apps instead.
Going to be interesting to see if they can survive the
move to smartphones now. Bet none of them can.
Why do you need grid references ?
I was very happy with mine, but don’t use it anymore now.
I used to do the garage/yard sale run google.maps on the PC
the evening before, mostly to get the run sequence right with
the locations I didn’t know where they were on a map. Then
moved that to the TomTom for use in the car during the run itself.
Now we coordinate the run by phone with the regulars so
where you actually go is much more dynamic now so there
isnt any point in a full itinerary on the TomTom anymore.
Its better to just put all of them into the mapper on the
iphone and just get to to route you to a particular sale
which you cant remember the best route to or where it has
an exact street number of the sale, which is uncommon.
And with google.maps on the smartphone you get the
actual streetview picture of the place on the phone.
I have my own facebook group that I put the garage/yard sale
ads into the day before from the newspaper online and from
the local facebook buy sell swap garage/yard sale ads that
don’t get into the paper because they charge $40 for the ad.
I get free facebook access in my phone so that works very well indeed.
Sure, but the smartphone does so much more and you really
need to have a phone with you in case you break your leg etc.
The local SES manager is a mate of mine and he recons that
if I ever did need to ring them up and say I had just broken
my leg at Lat and Long etc they'd love it because that would
be so unusual for them.
Once you have the smartphone for that, you might as
well do everything in it and get the dramatic advantage
of being able to try all the apps to see which one you
prefer for no cost instead of buying specialist devices
and discovering that they have real downsides.
Yeah, that sort of thing will certainly continue.
No reason why the supermarkets can't each have one.
Not anymore. My iphone 5 works fine inside my
house with a full metal decking roof and a massive
steel wall structure. The TomTom 710 doesn’t.
As a matter of interest how much does the typical smart phone user have
to pay (per week or month) to make constant use of the apps when out and
I would not be comfortable walking in unfamiliar territory without my
map, whistle and compass. I don't think I have ever actually been lost
when out on my own (I usually walk alone) but there have been times when
I have been more than a little uncertain as to where I was particularly
in my youth in mist in the Scottish Highlands with just an inaccurate 1"
map to tell me the topography. Last time out I did walk off the edge of
the map I was carrying without any ill effects unlike the runner who
came out of the valley behind me who would have had a very long run back
to his base if I hadn't given him a 10 mile lift in the right direction.
Battery life in excess or 16 hours when on all the time?
That's where we differ. My primary use for a GPS was to record where I
had been, not as a navigational aid. It gets used as a navigational aid
of course as it makes navigation easier in mist but if I want to orient
the map I use my compass, not my GPS. Indeed I have the GPS compass
turned off as it eats batteries.
A GPS is no different unless you don't have to turn the track on initially.
My etrex Vista gives the total ascent as a figure. The MM gives nothing
more than a profile and that AIUI only when the track has been saved and
then uploaded to the PC.
They seem to be doing well atm. Garmin have just updated their range and
I am tempted but the cost is a significant issue.
To waypoint the start of a walk in the middle of the back of beyond
where there is no road name, no habitation and the postcode area even if
available may extend to several sq miles. Grid refs are easy to take off
a paper map. Lat/long next to impossible to do accurately. With a
digital map it is as easy either way and only a bit more laborious for
Are you in the USA?
That's interesting but is that just the phone or does the GPS function
work as well? It was my understanding that the satellite signal was so
weak that the GPS manufacturers struggled for years to get reception
good enough to work even under tree cover.
Never tried telephone support but email support was rubbish and one
particular journey (both directions) destroyed any idea that it was good
at devising the fastest route. Didn't think much to their website
either. Route instructions were very good however.
I only ever had the need to get support the once and the support
I got was hopeless. The problem was with roads outside the towns
in the area. The TomTom couldn't find the road that wasn't in a
town. Turns out that you just use a pseudo town which is the area
the road is in. 'Support' didn't know that and I only found that out
by asking in one of the forums.
That's one very big advantage with the majors, lots of
people know about the quirks like that in the forums.
There will always be some quirks like that, but the systems
that allow the users to enter update info that optionally
gets disseminated to other users should do better.
Yeah, leaves quite a bit to be desired.
And I just prefer the general user interface approach
over that of the other majors I have tried.
I now use both google.maps and the
apple mapper on the phone instead tho.
Cant justify spending almost as much as a
dedicated satnav for the tomtom phone app
when it doesn't even do the very desirable
stuff like being able to tap on an address
and have it handed to the phone app for
routing to there.
There are two ways of getting on the net for live traffic..
A: BT to phone and using your phones data contract.
B: built in GPRS, no phone needed.
The BT option is cheaper.
They may also use BT for handsfree.
The tomtom devices still appear to have the edge in routing and live
On Mon, 07 Oct 2013 12:21:05 +0100, dennis@home wrote:
Three, TMC. Transmitted in the RDS data stream of many commercial FM
radio stations. I thought some of the stand alone, rather the vehicle
built in, Satnavs used that and it was free but wonkypedia doesn't
support that idea.
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