Advice on a new PC motherboard 'bundle' Featured

On Sun, 4/13/2025 7:41 PM, Sam Plusnet wrote:

To give the folks a flavour of what you've got currently, give us a dump on your hardware. We can use this information, to give you a comparable system closer to what you've got, without going overboard on the shiny aspect.

Using the CPUZ utility, you get CPU, motherboard, RAM, Graphics-Card.

The "Save Report" button gives a text file, and it can include your hard drive detail, such as "Samsung SSD 870 EVO 4TB" that is not shown in the graphical output here.

If you're on Linux, "inxi -F" will give a dump of similar details. Being a daily driver that had a bit of an illness, this thing has been round-the-block a few times. It's actually on its third processor, but don't tell anyone :-)

$ inxi -F System: Host: TICTAK Kernel: 6.8.0-51-generic arch: x86_64 bits: 64 Desktop: Cinnamon v: 6.4.6 Distro: Linux Mint 22.1 Xia Machine: Type: Desktop Mobo: Micro-Star model: MPG B550 GAMING PLUS (MS-7C56) v: 1.0 serial: <superuser required> UEFI: American Megatrends LLC. v: 1.I0 date: 07/13/2024 CPU: Info: 6-core model: AMD Ryzen 5 5600G with Radeon Graphics bits: 64 type: MT MCP cache: L2: 3 MiB Speed (MHz): avg: 616 min/max: 400/4464 cores: 1: 400 2: 400 3: 400 4: 2994 5: 400 6: 400 7: 400 8: 400 9: 400 10: 400 11: 400 12: 400 Graphics: Device-1: AMD Cezanne [Radeon Vega Series / Radeon Mobile Series] driver: amdgpu v: kernel Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 21.1.11 with: Xwayland v: 23.2.6 driver: X: loaded: amdgpu unloaded: fbdev,modesetting,vesa dri: radeonsi gpu: amdgpu resolution: 1920x1080~75Hz API: EGL v: 1.5 drivers: radeonsi,swrast platforms: x11,surfaceless,device API: OpenGL v: 4.6 compat-v: 4.5 vendor: amd mesa v: 24.0.9-0ubuntu0.3 renderer: AMD Radeon Graphics (radeonsi renoir LLVM 17.0.6 DRM 3.57 <=== this is iGPU inside the CPU 6.8.0-51-generic) Audio: Device-1: AMD Renoir Radeon High Definition Audio driver: snd_hda_intel Device-2: AMD Family 17h/19h HD Audio driver: snd_hda_intel API: ALSA v: k6.8.0-51-generic status: kernel-api Server-1: PipeWire v: 1.0.5 status: active Network: Device-1: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8211/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet driver: r8169 IF: enp42s0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: Drives: Local Storage: total: 465.76 GiB used: 7.43 GiB (1.6%) ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: Western Digital model: WD5003ABYZ-011FA0 <=== Some old hard drive size: 465.76 GiB Partition: ID-1: / size: 39.08 GiB used: 7.35 GiB (18.8%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda7 ID-2: /boot/efi size: 96 MiB used: 79.6 MiB (82.9%) fs: vfat dev: /dev/sda1 Swap: Alert: No swap data was found. Sensors: <=== No driver for sensor in Win or Linux! System Temperatures: cpu: 36.4 C mobo: N/A gpu: amdgpu temp: 29.0 C Fan Speeds (rpm): N/A <=== That is why fan speed is unknown Info: Memory: total: 64 GiB note: est. available: 62.19 GiB used: 1.65 GiB (2.7%) Processes: 296 Uptime: 1m Shell: Bash inxi: 3.3.34

Sometimes, your graphics card can't be recycled, because the VBIOS is too old. Some of the new motherboards, want a GOP VBIOS for UEFI usage, and they may reject an old video card. You can handle this at build time, see the video card is no good, try to pick up a cheap one (if the CPU does not have an iGPU). The 5600G for example, has an iGPU and does not need a video card purchase to work. Just recently, the later Zen line has also just put out an APU-like thing with a decent GPU in it as well. That's an AMD processor. Intel does similar things, like maybe a 14400 with iGPU would be a quad core and fairly cheap.

Two sticks of RAM, and the usage of the XMP setting, and the RAM "snaps to attention". You (or the provider) makes sure the RAM is within range of the hardware, and the XMP feature runs the RAM at whatever whizzy speed it's been tested with. For example, the system above was DDR4-3200 and that's pretty well exactly what it supports, and zero problems. The DDR5 systems today are DDR5-5600 and two sticks, flip on XMP, and job done. If you're fairly unconcerned about the RAM, it can today be practically friction-less to get going.

Some boxes, the CPU won't start, and that's part of your "tested system" philosophy. The machine I'm typing on, did not start the first time :-) I wasn't particularly surprised. I knew I needed to flash up the motherboard BIOS chip, and it took *all evening* to get the stupid machine to read the USB stick with the flash image on it. I was ready to smack someone. The manual had minimal instructions. When I thought the flashing red LED meant it was programming the flash... that was actually an error indicator :-) Doh. But I eventually got a different flashing pattern out of it, and I relaxed and waited for it to finish. No problem after that, came up, pressed <Del> and entered the BIOS. Switch on XMP. Now my RAM is ready. And so on.

On a tested system, you will be spared these moments of aggravation. Only if the CMOS battery fell out, might you take a step backwards (have to set up the BIOS again, not a big deal). As it is, you still have to enter the BIOS and set certain things with respect to keeping the "new" Windows happy (TPM, VT-X, and so on). Windows uses virtualization, so the VT-X or things near that, need to be switched on. Your TPM can be a separate plug-in hardware module, or it can be the fTPM emulation the BIOS provides. I would recommend to people to use the physical TPM module (to avoid the stutter bug on AMD at least), but you may decide differently. The price on those has shot up like crazy, for no particular reason. Several years ago, they were like "jelly-beans" at the shop I use. I really should have bought two.

Paul

You might like to consider something like Linux Mint. I moved from Win7 to Ubuntu and after a couple of years Linux Mint, and have never wanted to go back. I suggest you create a bootable iso of Linux Mint (try version 22.0), and boot your old PC from it just to see what it looks like, and perhaps have a play.

Just over 10 years ago I bought a "Clearance" laptop from Novatech. At the time, their machines were rebadged Clevo laptops. The laptop I bought was half the price it would have been new about 12 - 18 months previously, and was very highly specced. It worked faultlessly for over

I found that PCSpecialist (

Another company you might want to look at is

You'll have to decide what processor you want on a cost/performance basis.

Capacitors aren't that fragile. You have to antagonize them.

I've had two motherboard failures here, and the root cause was *not* caps.

It was different during the capacitor plague. It was so bad then, a capacitor could fail in two years, while cold, and not under bias. The pH of the liquid inside was such, it just ate through the casing. I bought an Antec power supply, it sat on the shelf for two years (as a "spare"), and when I went to use it, it was behaving in an unstable manner. When I opened it for a look, the four

Today, a design can use Polymer caps (no fluid) or electrolytics.

The electrolytic in my electric lawn mower, is 33 years old. It has not exploded, the can is intact, it's really quite amazing, in terms of service life. I got to check it, when I changed out the brushes.

This one is 100% polymer caps.

Clevo is an ODM, so just about everyone rebadges their stuff. They expect it to be rebadged. The Eurocom store near me, uses a lot of Clevo, and they put the Eurocom sticker on it. Clevo doesn't build battleships like it used to, the machines are losing weight, and whatever tactical advantage they had, is disappearing. You could have a laptop for example, with four SSDs in it. They don't do them exactly like that any more. The machines are toned down a bit. Can Clevo survive by making laptops that way ? I can't see this ending well. We want four SSDs, two MXM modules, and two wall adapters for power, like all good battleships. No one can steal your laptop, because it's too heavy. And some of those machines could cost 7000. To give you some idea how over the top they were. part of the price might be Quadro graphics (for CAD work).

Paul

The only motherboard I've had (still have) that failed due to caps was the infamous Abit BP6

I have had this conversation with quite a few customers recently, and have had to point out that yup it is a right pain that MS are forcing you to ditch a perfectly serviceable machine, but many of them are 10+ years old, and they might actually be pleasantly surprised how much of an improvement in performance the new one will bring along with lower running costs.

OOI what peripherals are you referring to?

You could just pick a motherboard that meets your needs, and then look at the makers hardware compatibility lists. Then just pick a RAM/CPU combination from the list, and you know that it is a tested combination that will work.

Not something I have ever bought, so not really.

(I could probably sell you a bundle though!)

Better cost / performance ratio at the moment. Intel are not doing as well in the desktop space as in the past. Their 13th/14th gen chips still seem to have a number of issues. (12th gen can actually be a more reliable bet at a lower price)

Any interest in gaming? (i.e. do you need a dedicated graphics card, or are you happy with built in GPU on the CPU)

Well, I did say /might/. I don't know how old this Dell monitor was, but this thread is very recent:

It was an awful time for manufacturers.

Is it a start or run capacitor? They are intended for pretty tough service, but even then problems can occur:

I was a bit disappointed with the new laptop, but I doubt it would have been different with any ODM (or OEM for that matter). The original laptop was intended for business, gaming, or any other use it could have been put to. It had an i5-3230M, 8GB ram, a Radeon HD 7970M video card, fingerprint reader, and the FireWire port. It /was/ (/is/!) built like a battleship, and the power brick even more so - it is rated at 180W!

Well no, they *are* that fragile. Especially the eletrolytic types. Remember that to get high capacitance the dielectric needs to be as thin as possible. In the case of an electrolytic it is a thin layer of generally aluminium oxide. Created by electrochemistry . If it starts to leak the eletrolyte can break down and off gas and distort the capacitor leading to a short or a popped case spewing corrosive material over the board

It its a ceramic the ceramic can crack under shock load, or sometimes break enough to short the electrodes out.

Blown caps are the most common failure mode for modern electronics followed by chip failures - usually due to overheating

One swallow doesn't make a summer. Smaller higher capacitance devices are pushing the limits

I am in the same situation, and in fact one of the three machines I have to upgrade has just died (CPU or motherboard) anyway.

I will avoid the obligatory 'install Linux <pick distro of the moment> comment; that was useless for me as all three systems must run Windows for good technical reasons.

I chose my own bundle using pangoly.com, which shows you options and (mostly) checks compatibility. Take a look.

There are a couple of ways round the hardware requirements for Win 11... Not necessarily things I would recommend for all users, but for home user prepared to take the less common path, might be worth considering.

One example would be to run win 11 as a guest OS in a VM. Many of the hypervisors can emulate a TPM even if the host of the hypervisor does not have one. (if you currently have Win 10 pro, then Hyper-V is included and can be enabled. That is a type 1 "bare metal" hypervisor that introduces very little overhead). So you would use Win 10 only for the purposes of access so the Win 11 virtual machine.

I had a router fail with bad caps. An Asus IIRC. Lost connectivity on 3 of the 4 ports in a period of several months.

Not strictly true. I'm triple booting windows 8.1/10/11 on ancient hardware.

Example of a setup.

The Guest RAM needs to be bumped up, to meet the new requirement for 16GB. But since the computer has no NPU (and VMs do not currently pass thru the NPU), the OS saves 8GB right there (does not have to host an 8GB AI file constantly), and should not need nearly that much RAM for a Guest.

Whereas VirtualBox uses TPM passthru, and the Host has to have a TPM or fTPM to pass thru. And I could not get a machine with fTPM to work in pass thru mode (Virtualbox 7). and I don't know what's wrong with the setup. Whereas the VMWare just works.

My monitor is pretty small for doing stuff like this.

Paul

It's also worth considering whether a change of form factor would make sense. eg now that primary storage is mostly M.2 NVMe SSDs rather than spinning hard drives, you only need find space for a half credit card sized PCB rather than an almost-VHS sized lump. If you don't need to house a lump, you can make the case much smaller.

Also, laptop-class CPUs are often 'good enough' nowadays, and they use less power and so need less cooling, which means you can get away with a tiny heatsink and fan rather than a heatsink the size of a mug. That also allows the case to be smaller. Because they're lower power and the graphics may be good enough to not need a discrete GPU, you don't need a giant PSU you can run the whole system from a power brick. etc etc

Once you go down this road, you might find you can pick up a whole mini PC for £200-300 which is the price of a mobo/CPU/RAM combo. Even less if you're prepared to consider a used ex-office mini PC.

Theo

Yes indeed.

Gone are the days of rolling upgrades to old PCs. You can pick up a win

In fact they are often cheaper than the CPU they contain.

And it comes ready to go.

Going the other way price-wise, I've just bought a new Mac Mini - astonishing bit of kit for the size and price (£600, although quite easy to get discounts).

Given the way MS have been abusing their customers, foisting things on them they don't want (forced-upgrades, removing features from W11 over W10, telemetry, adverts, AI, Recall, 'forgetting' that you disabled those things every time it updates, etc), that's not a bad option if you can stomach switching to a different platform. If the base 16GB RAM / 256GB storage isn't enough and you don't want to pay the Apple tax, there are now third party storage upgrades.

Or switch to Linux, where there's no arbitrary CPU age cutoff.

Theo

Yes, that's what I use as my 'desktop' machine now. I have a Fujitsu Esprimo Q957 bought refurbished from eBay for £142. I don't think it's quite up to Windows 11 but I'm sure similar later models will be.

Secondhand Mac Mini M1 going for about £300. I would buy one if I thought I could get Linux to run on it.

This kind of thread confuses me because I don't know what people want. Almost all modern PCs are fast enough for general use.

The new Beelink N100/N150 W11 is cheap and fast enough for general use. An Orange Pi 5 is about the same speed, faster than my 10 year old Windows/Intel PC, which was still fast enough.

The only reason I can see for building a PC would be if you have a specific use in mind, in which case it would be good to say up front, because it would affect the build requirements.

Absolutely. 16GB ram 256GB storage is under £300 for quality refurbs ...running win11 or Linux ...And with 16GB RAM you can run Virtualbox for those must have windows programs..

Does anybody actually *want* win 11?