Re: Bit O.T. Speeding ... ?

[F]

A58(M), Leeds

[Nightjar]

You identify the gap you are planning to enter as your go down the slip road, match your speed to the traffic on either side of that gap as you approach and slip in as you get there. That works on the M25 in the rush hour, so it will work anywhere else. Of course, if you don't have the skills to plan ahead, you may find yourself in the situation you describe.

The only reason to stop on the slip road would be if the traffic on the main carriageway were also stationary.

It is an offence to use the hard shoulder except in the circumstances described in Regulation 7 (2). Whatever you wish to think, the penalty for doing what you suggest is 3 points and a £60 fine.

His answer will be the same as the one given in the Regulations. Indeed, as he was invalided out of the Police following an accident involving somebody misusing the hard shoulder, I would expect him to say that the penalties should be harsher.

Colin Bignell

[Man at B&Q]

SO how do you cope when there is no hard shoulder? Please do enlighten us with your wisdom.

MBQ

[Man at B&Q]

WHat do *you* do in the situation where ther eis no hard shoulder?

MBQ

[Man at B&Q]

What do *you* do when there is no hard shoulder?

MBQ

[John Williamson]

In the first case, somebody starts to join an empty lane 1, and another somebody coming from behind them at great speed in lane 2 suddenly decides that they need to be in lane 1 *now*, and sod the person joining the motorway, they can either slam on their brakes, accelerate wildly (Impossible in anything larger than a motorbike), or carry on along the hard shoulder to avoid a collision. How is this the fault of the driver joining the motorway?

The lorry driver was proceeding at his speed limit in lane 1, and had been for some minutes at the time of the collision. The car driver either had not seen a 38 tonne, 12 foot tall, eight foot wide vehicle with headlights on, or had unanimously decided that they had right of way. The impact was midway along the length of the lorry, so the car driver obviously wasn't looking to check that the lane was clear. These idiots are the reason I always pass a junction in lane 2, if there is room.

No. Just as if someone hits the rear of another vehicle it's not 100% guaranteed to be their fault.

[Man at B&Q]

In addition to the example cited there are plenty of other roads "where you have to join the running lane from a slip road with no hard shoulder and where traffic is allowed to be in the running lane". Round here thay are called dual carriageways. Do you not have them in DennisWorld?

MBQ

[polygonum]

In addition to any other examples, this occurs quite frequently when roadworks are in progress.

[John Williamson]

Strangely enough, I was also quoting from the highway code. Same paragraph, same page. In fact, it is also in the post you were replying to. I'll keep driving safely and complying with the law where it is safe to do so.

[Adrian]

Umm, no, we're not. The two scenarios under immediate discussion were a

38tonner which couldn't move over because L2 is occupied, and somebody doing 100mph, so not likely to have executed a sudden lane change.

The person in L2 shouldn't have been there anyway if L1 was unoccupied, so since their awareness is clearly below par, they should be regarded as being likely to do strange and daft things. Just because one driver's an unobservant f****it, it doesn't mean that others aren't as well.

[polygonum]

As a rule, I certainly try to make it as easy as possible for joiners. Including moving over to lane 2 as appropriate. But it can be hard to retain a helpful attitude when some don't even attempt to use the gap you have left but cause problems all around by stupid manoeuvres.

[Adrian]

He probably thinks it's less of a problem, because the speed limit on them's lower.

[Nightjar]

Some years ago, I was coming down the M3, to join the M27 eastbound. Unfortunately, that was the day when somebody decided to park an aircraft on the M27, having overshot the runway at Eastleigh Airport. Lots of very slow traffic on the slip road joining the motorways and, every few minutes, somebody deciding to use the hard shoulder to bypass it. When we got to the end of the long, curving, slip road, there was a Police car and a queue of all the cars that had used the hard shoulder behind it. Not only was he booking the drivers, he was making them wait longer than they would have if they had stayed on the carriageway.

Colin Bignell

[Adrian]

No, just a little trimming to bring the two examples next to each other.

I thought they were doing 100mph? Exactly how sharp IS this lane-change?

But you'll note the difference from what was being discussed - in that L1 was not occupied when the person joining from the slip started the manouvre. Your "example" is no different to one person changing from L1 to L2 at the same time as another changes from L3 to L2. HC133 covers it perfectly adequately.

Dennis, probably, on finding there was no hard shoulder available.

[Nightjar]

Roadcraft tells us (and the Police) that signals should only be given when they will be of assistance to other road users.

Colin Bignell

[Steve Firth]

"dennis@home" wrote: [snip]

M602 J1 Eastbound M60 J11 Southbound M5 J3 North and Southbound (Astonished you don't know that one denbhoi) M5 J1 Southbound (or that one)

No surprise, the list of stuff you don't know is infinite. The list of stuff you do know is minuscule.

[Steve Firth]

"dennis@home" wrote: [snip]

The hard shoulder is not there to use as a run off lane for the clueless, stupid and unobservant. It is an emergency refuge. Failure to observe and drive correctly is fuckwittery, not an emergency.

[F]

Or if, as is often the case on the A58(M) during rush hour(s), traffic is nose to tail.

[polygonum]

I have always tended to take a broad interpretation of that and so might signal more often than some others. My rationale is that it can be difficult to know who will be helped by your signalling - sometimes it will be a party that you could not even see.

But signalling for the entire length of a slip road seems not to communicate anything useful.

[John Williamson]

Acceptable as long as you realise that indicating is showing your intentions and doesn't give you the right to just carry out the manouevre. Unfortunately, a lot of British drivers seem to believe the latter. Drivers in mainland Europe seem to handle this better, and get confused if you change lanes to let them in just because they're indicating..