PING ARW re EICRs

[SH]

Hi, I have a rental property built in 1985 and obviously wired to the the then IEEE wiring regs in force in 1985.

I now need to get an EICR and am thinking of things that may fail the EICR.

The current CU is a split load job with MCBs, an RCD on one side and a simple on-off switch on the other side. is this a pass or fail?

The previous owners ran SWA from a downstairs ring main via a 13A Fused connection switched spur in the lounge. is this a fail or pass?

In the garage, there is a garage style sub-CU with a simple on-off switch. Then there are what at first glance looks like conventional MCB's but rather than a trip/reset switch, it has a trap door that opens and there is a ceramic cartridge fuse inside it.

see

for an example

and the fuses it uses are these:

One is 6A for the internal and external lights and one 32A for the internal ring main in garage.

Will this garage sub-CU require replacement to an RCD & MCB jobby?

Finally, what are the most common issues found for houses built in 1985 that would now fail an EICR excepting really obvious stuff like visibly broken sockets, visibly broken light fittings, visibly broken wall switches etc?

Regards,

Stephen.

[SH]

P.S. that aforementioned SWA is the supply to the garage and the distance between the switched fused 13A spur to the garage sub-CU is not even 5m ( a gate sits between house corner wall and the garage corner wall.

ALso there is an earth rod for the garage. It is electrically functioning but 6 inches of gravel has been poured onto the soil so the earth wire goes into the gravel to the top of the earth rod. Is this a pass or fail due to the bolting point of wire to rod not being easily accessible as gravel has to temporarily removed?

[Roger Hayter]

While you await a proper reply, it will probably be useful to know what the main earth at the meter and incoming mains supply connects to. Is there a label saying PME? Is there an earth stake anywhere?

[John Rumm]

No intrinsic reason why it should fail - assuming the main equipotential bonds are present. However it would make any changes or additions to the electrical system difficult or impossible to do in a way that would be compliant now. (lack of RCD protection etc)

It was likely compliant at the time of installation, and there is not usually a mandate to keep an installation up to date.

(although for a rented property you may want to aim somewhat higher!)

Again it could have been ok at the time.

The implication being that you have very little discrimination between circuits in the event of a fault since the upstream 13A fuse would likely blow under fault conditions.

Also a bit intrigued by the earth stake since there does not appear to be a RCD in the garage CU...

All that, plus lack of adequate sockets, and worn contacts and switch gear.

I would expect a good number of C3 class "Improvement Recommended" observations.

[SH]

It is labelled as Protective multiple earth in the Meter box.

The earth rod mentioned earlier is specific to the gaerage.

[SH]

Duly noted. I prefer to do improvement/update works between tenants rather than do it while they are living there, after all they have a right to enjoy the property.

The current tenants have been there nearly 9 years which is good in any landlord/lady's book....

But is this OK for an EICR?

Well the downstairs ring main is protected by an RCD in the House CU and as teh garage SUb CU is connected to the downstairs ring main via a 13A switched FCU, the then installer must have presumed the RCD in the house would then "protect" the garage and decided to put an earth stake in rather than export the earth.

I used to live in said house and moved out in 2011. the old sockets were all spattered in paint so after decorating, I replaced every single one of the sockets along with all the light fittings, so they date from 2010 rather than from 1985. I also took the opportunity to increase the number of sockets as well.

[John Rumm]

In which case additional earth rods can be connected to the suppliers earth. (although there may not be any benefit in doing so).

[Owain Lastname]

Neither.

Non-RCD protected circuits may be C2 or C3.

If you don't have an electric shower, and all supplementary bonding in the bathroom is present, then probably C3.

If supplementary bonding in bathroom is missing, probably C2 (improvement required)

Assuming the ring circuit is RCD protected, no problem.

Not if already RCD protected from the supplying circuit in the house. However if the earth has not been exported and the garage is TT, then new RCD will probably be required

Supplementary bonding missing in bathroom if not *all* circuits RCD protected. No RCD on sockets likely to be used for equipment outdoors Electric showers on undersized cables - if a 6kW was fitted in the 80s and has since been gpgraded to a 10kW Plastic consumer unit in an unsuitable location (eg fire escape route) /may/ be picked up. Miscellaneous bodges, IP rating on consumer unit with knockouts badly formed, etc Switched lives left as black and not sleeved red/brown Undersized main bonding conductors especially on PME systems.

These may not all be fails, but they are defects where improvement may be recommended if not required.

Owain

[John Rumm]

An EICR is going to report on things in three categories: C1, Immediately Dangerous - things that are serious and must be fixed *now*. So exposed live metalwork (broken enclosures, damaged insulation etc, serious overheating, lack of/inadequate earthing that kind of thing.

C2, Potentially Dangerous, urgent attention required. Things that could easily become a C1 in the event of a minor fault elsewhere or something foreseeable happening. e.g. use of gas pipe as main earth, or no protective conductor on a lighting circuit with Class I fittings in use.

C3, Requires improvement.

There are some good examples starting on page 12 here:

Since it's a PME system, the earth could be exported as well as having the earth stake, However the installer may have opted not to export the earth since with a PME installation that would also export the equipotential zone into the outbuilding as well.

See:

That will help then :-)

[John Rumm]

Slightly ironic this but we have a sparks with no power!

Had call from Adam earlier asking me to post an apology for a late reply.

He had spent 30 mins on a detailed reply to this post, and then had a power cut and lost it all. So he will try again tomorrow when (if) the power is back on.

[Owain Lastname]

<chortle>

Owain

[SH]

Thanks for the heads up. :-)

I do have one further question.

Lets say I get a EICR carried out and it reveals some issues that can be fixed by a competent person and does not need someone with a official ticket like Part P, NICEIC, IET, Elecsa or Napit.

Examples would be a wall socket or a light switch etc.

Now I obviously have to decide whether I pay a sparky to fix it or do the work myself.

Now what do I do with the EICR report with its items list of things to rectify?

is it sufficient that if the council come calling that I show them the fault(s) have been fixed

or

do I have to pay for a full 2nd EICR or is there a free retest like that for a MoT if minor faults are fixed within x days?

(AN EICR is £120 plus VAT and I don't want to have to pay the full fee again but I can see the Sparky saying he can then re-issue the EICR with a pass with compliments if I pay him to fix the faults at additional cost to the orginial EICR fee.....)

[Robin]

The official guidance covers what's needed if the report requires work to be done:

"Where the report shows that remedial or further investigative work is necessary, complete this work within 28 days or any shorter period if specified as necessary in the report.

Supply written confirmation of the completion of the remedial works from the electrician to the tenant and the local authority within 28 days of completion of the works."

As for DIY, the regulations require the EICR and the confirmation to come from a "qualified person?. That's defined to mean "a person competent to undertake the inspection and testing required under regulation 3(1) and any further investigative or remedial work in accordance with the electrical safety standards". The guidance confirms that doesn't have to be a member of a scheme:

"When commissioning an inspection, in order to establish if a person is qualified and competent landlords can:

check if the inspector is a member of a competent person scheme; or require the inspector to sign a checklist certifying their competence, including their experience, whether they have adequate insurance and hold a qualification covering the current version of the Wiring Regulations and the periodic inspection, testing and certification of electrical installations."

[ARW]

Thanks for that John. I found most of the reply in drafts as you said I would - the bit about the garage is missing.

[ARW]

Hi Stephen

The most common failures in that era of install are (in no particular order and excluding the stuff you asked to be excluded)

Lack of RCD protection for sockets - this will almost certainly be a C2

Lack of supplementary bonding in bathrooms (again C2) although you can overcome this by fitting a RCBO on the appropriate circuits if possible.

High or open circuit readings on LL, NN or EE on a final ring circuit. Probably a loose connection behind one of the sockets.

Badly fitted spot lights (obviously fitted later) usually with just strip connector in the loft (C2)

Missing main equipotential bonding to gas/water (C2)

Immersion heaters without a secondary thermal cut out (C2)

Other problems are badly fitted DIY additions such as sockets in 1.5mm T&E and absolutely everything the kitchen fitter did when the new kitchen was installed in 2000.

Code C3 will be noted for your installation for domestic lighting not having RCD protection, cable behind plaster less than 50mm from the surface not having RCD protection and having a plastic CU.

You do not have to take any action on code 3s.

I'll get back later about your garage - see my other post.

And do you know what sort of CU it is? 1985 installs often did not have split loads CUs.

[ARW]

The only reason I can think of that they did not export the earth (assuming it is not exported) is that there are extraneous conductive parts in the garage or the elec co do not allow you to export the earth.

[Robin]

<snip>

<snip really, really useful stuff that I think deserves to be added to the Wiki> [says someone who knows the Wiki is not available at the present so has an excuse if told to d-i-y. He hopes :)]

[ARW]

If it was just broken sockets etc we would not charge for a full retest even if you swapped them yourself. Other firms may differ.

[Dave Plowman (News]

;-)

[SH]

So what will the garage sub consumer unti be graded at on an EICR with its ceramic cartridge fuses even though it takes its power off a 13A switched neon FCU off the lounge ring main?