EICRs

[GB]

I hired an electrician to do EICRs for the tenanted flats at my old office. He has produced certificates with a one year renewal, rather than the usual five years.

There's nothing 'electrical' to justify this. He just says that the tenant may leave, and then he thinks I should get a new certificate "in case the tenant has modified the electrics".

Is he right, or has he invented a little dodge in the hope of having ongoing work? If so, apart from refusing to pay his bill, is there any way to get him to reissue the EICRs with a five year renewal?

[SH]

did you have any C codes at all on the EICR and if so what were they?

But it is the first I've heard of this 1 year thing.....

(I had an EICR done on my rental house and that was issued for 5 years and I have 4 C3 advisories on it......

S.

[GB]

Just a C3 saying "4.4 Fuse board is made from a combustible material".

[Robin]

Contact his CPS?

FWIW I used to think the "next inspection date" was just a recommendation. But it sure ain't now for landlords. The regs make explicit that your EICR would only be valid for 1 year.

[GB]

What's a CPS?

[Andy Burns]

competent persons scheme (NICEIC, NAPIT, etc)

[Theo]

Competent Person Scheme. One of:

NICEIC or Elecsa (both owned by Certsure) NAPIT or Stroma (both owned by NAPIT)

They all have databases of registered tradespeople. Look him up and see where he is registered.

I think you can do EICRs without being on a CPS, since that's primarily for Part P. But it would be rather telling if so (particularly if he proposes doing remedial work himself).

Theo

[GB]

He's NICEIC. But dobbing him in over this seems a bit OTT.

[Robin]

OTT? All you need to do is ask NICEIC if they agree with the reason he gave you for the installation needing to be to be tested again in 1 year. If not, can they have a word with him and you get a new certificate. (And if so, why isn't the same true for all landlords?) It's not as if he'll get struck off.

[Brian Gaff (Sofa]

Yes if he makes a disclaimer that he checked it on a date and any alterations after that are going to make the cert null, then I'd have thought it would be fine. Brian

[Brian Gaff (Sofa]

Is there one for incompetent persons then? Brian

[SH]

I have rechecked my EICR.

On Page 1, under Part 2:

Purpose for which this report is required: the spary put down:

Landlords Report

and Part 5: Next a bit of blah blah then this installation should be further inspected and tested after an interval of not more than 5 years

and Give Reason for recommendation and the sparky put "Rented Property"

So its clear the sparky is aware its a rental property and has stated a retest/reinspection interval of 5 years.

Having said that, I can well believe that tenants can "interfere" with the electrics particularly if they have a Landlord that is not proactive and responsive enough to fixing problems upon request by the tenant.

[Robin]

Another option for you: ask him to check with NICEIC his grounds for the

1 year certificate. Point out that while NICEIC used to recommend an EICR on change of tenant that didn't make it into the law. That only requires an EICR every 5 years. So his approach is way more onerous.

Then if he still won't change his mind you can go to NICEIC with clearer evidence that you tried to resolve the matter with him.

[SH]

Come to think of it from a legal point of view, its probably not a bad idea to have an EICR at a change of tenant just in case the outgoing tenant has "interfered" with the wiring to then present a safety risk to the incoming tenant....

If the incoming tenant is injured/electrocuted, the landlord's ability to defend themself against a charge of letting unsafe property will be weaker without an EICR at change of tenant?

[Theo]

Surely that would have been written into the law if that was the case? The law has decided that 5 years is a suitable period, and so that would seem a suitable defence? The law is primarily to protect tenants from bad landlords, not landlords from bad tenants.

For example there's no requirement to do a gas safety check on change of tenant, and the argument the tenant could have fiddled with gas appliances would be similar. Of course obvious damage would be something you should investigate.

I suppose it depends how often you change tenant - if it's a student let that turns over every year doing an EICR every year might be excessive, whereas if it typically changes tenancy after 3-4 years it might make sense to do it before a new let - saves having to impose half a day with the power turned off on a tenant in place (particularly if they WFH).

Theo

[Fredxx]

The risk is miniscule if you consider how many deaths are through fixed wiring per year.

I would say having the EICR certificate actually strengthens the landlord#s position, not weakens it. If the law doesn't demand an EICR at every change of tenant the landlord isn't obliged to have one carried out.

[Andrew]

[Ewan1965]

You would normally put 5 years or change of tenancy, however if the inspector feels the condition of the installation should be reviewed sooner possibly deteriorating insulation resistance values, then that should be in observations and recommendations. The Mental Capacity of the tenants could be a factor with an increased duty of care.

[Andrew]

Plus the ones who intend to use the house to improve their horticulture.

[GB]

Thanks very much, everyone. We have resolved the issue amicably, and the electrician has kindly reissued the certificates.

He remains firmly of the opinion ("I know for a fact," he told me a few minutes ago) that a new certificate is required on a change of tenancy.

He likes doing EICRs for landlords, and I suspect that he is storing up a lot of problems for the future**. He's a nice guy, very hard working, and I would prefer to set him straight. Do you know if there's anything from NICEIC I can show him that says he's wrong?

** The issue I can foresee is that lots of landlords won't check the renewal date on the certificate, assume it's 5 years, and come a cropper when it turns out they've been issuing invalid certificates. They'll then blame the electrician. I'd like to help him avoid that particular problem.