Part P double socket under the worktop

Who cares - nobody will find out.

Doing the work is not illegal, you just need to get Building Control Approval from your local council, before you start. Should only cost you about =A3150 plus possibly the cost of an inspection!

I know about BC and inspection, what about the siting of the socket ?

well, quite. but when the house is sold I don't want any comebacks from whoever purchases it.

As before .Who cares .Just do it .Use old colours if you are really bothered altho' new were on sale before the ROOLZ came in ...

Stuart

Well being a kitchen and as your changing stuff and adding I suppose TECHNICALLY you should get BC in, however I'd simply just do it.

Just as long as when you sell the place the thing doesn't start a fire as soon as the new owners move in, you'll be alright :-)

and how are _they_ going to find out when it was done ?

Quire. No surveyor is ever going to look under a worktop. Once sold, no problem as long as its safe.

Why not just extend the wiring in surface mini trunking if there is room. The existing box will then be a junction box on the ring main.

Well said.

IEE guidance [*] is that "wiring accessories (e.g. socket-outlets, switches) should be mounted on the building fabric and not on kitchen furniture." You mention fixing a socket inside a wall unit; were you to have the work inspected there's a fair chance that the inspector/tester would deem this unacceptable.

Hi Andy - is the language of the IEE guide like that of Internet Requests For Comment (RFCs) , in that 'must' means it is obligatory and 'should' means it is recommended but optional?

In the case of a property I bought a few years ago, the socket-outlets are mounted on the side section of the kitchen unit, in the cupboard under the sink. There is not space to mount them on the building fabric as the plumbing fittings are in the way. Siting the socket-outlets anywhere else would require rewiring the appliances with extra-long power cords, or using extension leads. There are always odd situations that test the rules, but if the ruling you refer to is mandatory, it looks like this kitchen can't have appliances!

I suppose it mught turn on what 'building fabric' and 'kitchen furniture' are. The units and worktop are 'built in', and immobile, and mounting a socket on them seems reasonable to me. Mounting a socket on a freestanding cupboard or welsh dresser would seem unreasonable, as these are (relatively) mobile.

I'm not a qualified electrician, so what seems reasonable to me could well be utter tosh.

Regards,

Sid

I had a similar problem here when we moved in. One day we'll re-do the kitchen, but...

They'd mounted the main electric oven isolation switch (so 13A socket on it) inside the cupboard ABOVE the oven, screwed to the 'shelf' (i.e. roof of the oven compartment), facing upwards, in the rear corner. Without tearing the kitchen apart, I had little option; it's on the outside of that cupboard, now easily accessible. It *is* a built-in cupboard, and rewiring would have to take place if the cupboards were removed, but that's generally true anyway. Oh, and the kitchen is now on a separate final ring circuit, and the oven is on its own radial, so at least it's easy to isolate.

Think furniture is by nature movable if you look it up in a dictionary. If the units are fixed to the wall etc they become fabric.

Friend of mine had a row with 2 insurance companies over this. Company providing the contents insurance claimed kitchen units were fabric and the company providing the buildings insurance claimed they were contents.

Moral of the story - use one company for both policys.

Well, yes, we could debate this 'til the cows come home. I suspect that the *intention* of the guidance is that accessories shouldn't be mounted on 'fixed' kitchen units, let alone on free-standing furniture.

Kitchen work wasn't included as notifiable in the original consultation draft of the Part P legislation, but was added in response to comments to the effect that "kitchen fitters seem to be doing a lot of dodgy electrical work" - sockets fixed to 15 mm chipboard with half-inch screws and connected via unsecured T&E cable, cables not run in the permitted safe zones, 'spur rules' broken, that kind of thing. This is what's led to the guidance in the EGBR which I've summarised here before. Here's a repost:

(i) accessories to be on building fabric, not on kitchen furniture;

(ii) control switches to be mounted to avoid need to reach over hobs;

(iii) sockets to be a minimum of 450 mm above floor;

(iv) accessories a min. of 300 mm from edge of sink or draining board;

(v) sockets for washing m/c's or dishwashers etc. to be positioned so as not to be dripped or splashed on if plumbing leaks;

(vi) sockets to be min. 150 mm above worktop (to centre-line of skt);

(vii) sockets supplying under-worktop appliances to be accessible when appliance pulled out;

(viii)built-in appliances to be connected to socket or FCU that is readily accessible when appliance is in normal use, OR controlled by readily accessible DP switch or switched FCU;

(ix) light switches to be readily accessible;

(x) manufacturer's instructions should be followed.

And for residents of Chez Dribble the fixed units are fabric anyway. Wipe-clean and padded.

Owain

A queries

(iii) sockets to be a minimum of 450 mm above floor

I presume that we are back to the Part M of the building regs as seen so many times on this group. Page 155 of the blue OSG says that the requirements do not apply to kitchens.

(vi) sockets to be min. 150 mm above worktop (to centre-line of skt);

Is that a reg? It seem a bit unfair to people who want one row of 4 inch tiles to fit flush with the bottom of their sockets. Will reg 533-01-06 apply just as well?

Adam