Hi all
Still on the kitchen wiring subject. To comply with BCO request, I will be providing an accessible switched fused spur to feed a less accessible socket for the integrated fridge freezer. The wiring layout would make it easier to provide the socket at the back of the cupboard above the oven. Is there a problem with this - either due to accessibility of socket or maybe heat from the oven housing?
Thanks
Phil
Does not need to be fused... you could have a plain ordinary 20A plate switch (with optional neon) feeding a single socket.
e.g.
Technically a socket at the back of an adjacent cupboard ought to satisfy the means of isolation requirement. The only slight dodgy arrangement is one where you must pull the appliance out to get to its socket and that is the only way to isolate.
I would not really want a socket directly above an oven because of the (potential) ambient temperature.
A cupboard above an over? Oooo, don't like that. My gas chap says you require four feet of clear space above a cooker.
Or am I misinterpreting? By "oven" do you mean "oven", ie a heated box with a door on the front, or do you mean "cooker", ie a heated box etc, with heating rings on top, possibly also with a grill above it. Even so, I'd aim to keep any wiring away from the heat of an oven or cooker.
I'm starting to wonder if you providing a layout diagram would help us to help you.
JGH
Yeah, I'd be wary, we have a cupboard above our oven (used for ovenware storage), it gets pretty warm in there
For appliances pushed under a worktop the EGBR clearly states that the feeding socket-outlet *should* be accessible when the appliance is pulled out and it doesn't mandate any other means of isolation.
For integrated appliances there should be a readily accessible socket, SFCU or DP switch.
Also "wiring accessories should be mounted on the building fabric and not on kitchen furniture."
Having it on the wall at the back of the adjacent cupboard does not stop that being the case. It just means its also still accessible when the appliance is pushed into its hole.
Although B&Q think otherwise apparently! ;-)
"jgharston" wrote
Thanks JGH
Yes I do mean integrated oven (hob on other side of room). The problem is that I have 3 full height cupboards. Right hand is fridge/freezer - middle is oven - left is utility, ironing board etc. There is no room to the right of this lot for isolation which BCO says has to be outside of cupboards. So I intend to provide isolation to the left of the tall run of units and cable to outlets closer to the point of use. The oven outlet was going to be at the back of the utility cupboard, then wired behind/across to the oven itself. Or as John suggests locate the oven outlet directly behind the oven (though I'm not sure how much room there is behind these appliances). This leaves the fridge freezer supply. If I provide an isolated socket at the back of the utility cupboard, then I've got to get the cable from the f/f past the oven unit to the utility cupboard far left. So I was trying to find a suitable closer spot to position the socket to the f/f housing, which would obviously be around the oven somewhere.
I do have a wiring diagram, but due to BCO requested changes, this area of it is out of date ATM.
Phil
As someone once pointed out - kitchen units could be classed as part of the fabric of the building as you don't take them with you when you move house.
"ARWadsworth" wrote
I *think* the Engineers Guide to the Building Regs actually clarifies this point (from the author's point of view) but don't have it with me today.
Phil
True, but what I was getting is that putting the outlet behind the appliance is quite OK for free-standing appliances, provided there's no risk from dripping or splashing water. Those who say that you must have an accessible FCU etc. are going OTT.
They're part of the building, but are they part of its fabric?
IANAL but from having been required once-upon-a-time to grapple with the law on fixtures I'd say kitchen units would be held to be fixtures and so part of the building but not part of the "fabric of the building".
But the guidance that "wiring accessories should be mounted on the building fabric and not on kitchen furniture" would then militate against the "kitchen islands" beloved by those with large kitchens and widely installed. Eg does the guidance dictate that an electric hob in an island have the means of isolation fitted to a wall rather than on the island? That kitchen islands must not have sockets fitted to them?
I assume the guidance also rules out pull cord switches for under-cupboard lighting unless (i) the switch is integral to the light fitting or (ii) the switch is fitted to the ceiling?
Then again, I too am unsure if the guidance intended "should" to impose an obligation. Perhaps those who draft the guidance - and the regs - might be gently advised that even Parliamentary Counsel now minimise the use of "shall" etc in legislation in favour of the more modern "must" to convey obligation? On that score the 17th Edition came across as *so* fuddy-duddy :)
While I agree the regs don't require a switch etc, I would personally always fit one if the socket is not accessible without moving the appliance and its tucked into a under worktop gap.
Two episodes illustrate why; the first was a tumble drier that I saw the wiring of catch fire - flames visible through the rear vent holes in the drum. Being able to turn it off sharpish was instrumental to restricting the scale of the event to just "what a niff, that duvet is going to need another wash now". The second was watching a chap attempt to pull a washing machine out of the cubby hole, while its casework was live![1]
[1] This was part of what became a much deeper storey. I was there under invitation of a mutual mate who thought that getting shocks off the casework was probably not to be considered a safe and normal experience and warranted further investigation - the owner however just tried to remember not to touch it with wet hands!Just as well. Turns out none of the kitchen sockets had an earth at all (that was a physical circuit fault on the kitchen ring), so the low ESR cap in the mains input filter did not trip the RCD or cause the cap to go pop. Also it turns out most of the house had no earth either. One circuit exhibited what looked like about 20 ohms ELI from a bit of fortuitous earthing from somewhere (possibly via the undersized main water EQ bond - but that is debatable, because it did not seem to be shared with the remainder of the house). At first glance I thought it must be a TT install. But then noticed the conventional split load CU with main switch and no master RCD, and the in town location with underground supply seemed unexpected if this was the case. I had to look at it for a few mins to conclude that it was actually intended to be a TN-C-S setup, but with the novel amendment of having no connection whatsoever between the incoming PEN conductor, and the CU at all! Hence the house had been basically unearthed for the past 10 years since it was built!
Probably not...
Indeed good points. I have certainly done the pull cord thing, but for some reason would feel less happy screwing a socket to the side of a cabinet.
Na, give me nice testable, traceable, "shalls" any day! (nothing worse than a mealy mouthed requirements spec) ;-)
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