Part P (again)

I don't think that this is correct. They seem to have confused standards for the work with what is and what isn't controlled.

Have a look at

However it will be a wonderful resource to reference when someone asks why some work hasn't had building regs. approval! :-)

There's a thought. Better archive it before they correct it.

It is correct. That is what it says.

From the link you gave Andy:

DESCRIPTIONS OF WORK WHERE NO BUILDING NOTICE OR DEPOSIT OF FULL PLANS REQUIRED

Work which -

(a) is not in a kitchen, or a special location,

(b) does not involve work on a special installation, and

(c) consists of -

(i) adding light fittings and switches to an existing circuit;

(ii) adding socket outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit; or

(iii) installing or upgrading main or supplementary equipotential bonding.

I thought adding socket outlets and spurs was not allowed under the new regs, but this says otherwise. Except for a kitchen.

Steve

From the link you gave Andy it states:

DESCRIPTIONS OF WORK WHERE NO BUILDING NOTICE OR DEPOSIT OF FULL PLANS REQUIRED

Work which -

(a) is not in a kitchen, or a special location,

(b) does not involve work on a special installation, and

(c) consists of -

(i) adding light fittings and switches to an existing circuit;

(ii) adding socket outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit; or

(iii) installing or upgrading main or supplementary equipotential bonding.

I thought adding new socket outlets and spurs was not allowed under the new regs, but this says otherwise. Except for a kitchen.

Steve

Do you believe everything you read on web sites?

Look at Part P of Schedule 1 and Schedule 2B near the bottom.

The Schedule 1 piece gives the scope of where electrical work is controlled. This is in a dwelling and buildings associated with or supplied from it.

Schedule 2B lists exemptions.

DIY work following BS7671 is not exempted.

I've emailed ROSPA and asked them to check their information.

"special location"? What is that?

So the above two say any work as long as it is not in a kitchen or a "special installation" (whatever that is)

So if you leave 1 foot od each of the two wores comming for the 30 amp fuse from the CU you can do anything. The circuit is existing and sockets and fused spurs added.

Yep. You are right. So anything goes as long as it is not in a kitchen or "special location", whatever that is.

I can see why they homed in on kitchen. This is to prevent cowboy kitchen fitters slapping cables all around the place. That MPs daughter who died probably prompted this.

You can because they are considered to be a minor work.

Whether or not this makes any sense is another issue.

As far as I am concerned, If somebody is competent (or not) to add a spur or socket then I see no real reason why they can't add a circuit from the competence perspective.

It's just as easy to get into trouble installing a spur as it is a circuit.

For example, cable of inadequate size could be used, or people could add a spur to the end of a spur from a ring circuit.

Exempting equipotential bonding is curious as well. It's an imprtant safety mechanism and should also be tested.

The exemptions seem much more arbitrary than considered, especially when there isn't a problem to address in the first place.

From the SI:

"special location" means a location within the limits of the relevant zones specified for a bath, a shower, a swimming or paddling pool or a hot air sauna in the Wiring Regulations, sixteenth edition, published by the Institution of Electrical Engineers and the British Standards Institution as BS 7671: 2001 and incorporating amendments 1 and 2.".

No they don't. The word "and" is important here. For exemption, conditions (a), (b) *and* (c) must apply.

This would appear to meet the letter of the legislation.

We had a thread a while back where somebody suggested putting looped circuits into a CU for this reason.

It is one more reason why the whole thing, like most of this kind of legislation, is a nonsense.

Entirely possible but completely flawed.

Well this is good news, Part P doesn't seem so restrictive after all. I was under the impression that changing cracked socket/light/ceiling fittings was about all you could do.

Should we have expected anything else!

Steve

" SCHEDULE 2B

Regulation 12(5)

DESCRIPTIONS OF WORK WHERE NO BUILDING NOTICE OR DEPOSIT OF FULL PLANS REQUIRED

1. Work consisting of -

(a) replacing any socket-outlet, control switch or ceiling rose;

(b) replacing a damaged cable for a single circuit only;

(c) re-fixing or replacing enclosures of existing installation components, where the circuit protective measures are unaffected;

(d) providing mechanical protection to an existing fixed installation, where the circuit protective measures and current carrying capacity of conductors are unaffected by the increased thermal insulation.

1. Work which -

Work which -

(a) is not in a kitchen, or a special location,

(b) does not involve work on a special installation, and

(c) consists of -

(i) adding light fittings and switches to an existing circuit;

(ii) adding socket outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit; or

(iii) installing or upgrading main or supplementary equipotential bonding.

1. In paragraph 2 -

"special installation" means:

- an electric floor

- ceiling heating system,

- garden lighting

- electric power installation,

- an electricity generator

- an extra-low voltage lighting system which is not a pre-assembled lighting set bearing the CE marking referred to in regulation 9 of the Electrical Equipment (Safety) Regulations 1994[8];

"special location" means a location within the limits of the relevant zones specified for a bath, a shower, a swimming or paddling pool or a hot air sauna in the Wiring Regulations, sixteenth edition, published by the Institution of Electrical Engineers and the British Standards Institution as BS 7671: 2001 and incorporating amendments 1 and 2.". [so can't fix electrical equipment "near" a bath, shower, pools& sauna.]

This does not have to be connected to the electrical system.

You are looking at it the wrong way round.

These are *exemptions*.

Other works are controlled.

No.

No. You haven't read it correctly. The *and* at the end of (b) means that conditions (a) (b) *and* (c) have to apply.

The legislation would appear to leave that loophole.

It isn;t a bulletted list

"special installation" means an electric floor or ceiling heating system, a garden lighting or electric power installation, an electricity generator, or an extra-low voltage lighting system which is not a pre-assembled lighting set bearing the CE marking referred to in regulation 9 of the Electrical Equipment (Safety) Regulations

Less than 50v AC or 120v DC

It;s better, but not usefully better.

If you're an idiot you can still get into trouble and if you are competent, it's stupidly restrictive.

Now where was my hunting horn?

It is part of the electrical system in that if absent there is an increased risk of shock and other issues.

Just because something is not normally current carrying doesn't mean that it's unimportant.

Having taken a look at this, Part P and other postings, I am now sure it is wrong.

Further, it now seems clear to me that **all** domestic electrical works are covered by Building Regs.

The exemptions appear to be about notification, not about whether it is covered by the Regs or not. The title of Schedule 2B is "DESCRIPTIONS OF WORK WHERE NO BUILDING NOTICE OR DEPOSIT OF FULL PLANS REQUIRED"

The only exempt works are described in the "Limits of Application" column of amendments to Schedule 1 - i.e.:

The requirements of this Part apply only to electrical installations that are intended to operate at low or extra-low voltage and are -

(a) in a dwelling;

(b) in the common parts of a building serving one or more dwellings, but excluding power supplies to lifts;

(c) in a building that receives its electricity from a source located within or shared with a dwelling; and

(d) in a garden or in or on land associated with a building where the electricity is from a source located within or shared with a dwelling.

Everything else is covered by the regs, but not all works require notification.

The Part P Approved Document seems to take that view. From section 0.8

When the non-notifiable work described in Table 1 [i.e Schedule 2B] is to be undertaken by a DIY worker, a way of showing compliance would be to follow the IEE guidance or guidance in other authoritative manuals that are based on this, and to have a competent person inspect and test the work and supply a Minor Electrical Installation Works Certificate. The competent person need not necessarily be registered with an electrical self-certification scheme but, as required by BS 7671, must be competent in respect of the inspection and testing of an installation

Note the use of the word "compliance". The regs apply even for minor DIY.So if we don't want to get a certified "professional" to check our stuff, we will have to do ourselves certificates !

"coherers"

You could fill all the spare breaker slots on the CU and have two 1 metre lengths going onto one socket near the CU. then that is a "circuit".

You can totally replace an existing ring main if it is defective. So you can redirect an existing ring main right back to the CU breaker as it was "defective".

Now where are the regs that say a replacement cylinder needs the BCO involved?

You are not exempted from touching the ring main as you can "replacing any socket-outlet, control switch or ceiling rose;". To do this may entail working on the ring main. Simple. Obvious.

Yes! You are exempted if the cable is damaged and needs replacing. hat may mean the whole ring main. Simple. Obvious.

No "and" at the end of (a), so (a) not joined with (b) and (c).

I streched out the commas.

So you can't plug in a low voltage garden light set to a socket on the outside of the house? Me thinks not.

So, you can't fit 12v downlighters. So, that is why Homebase do not sell