I need to do some electrical work in my house
Kitchen and bathroom (if it was advertised on TV I would have done the bathroom and kitchen 2 years ago !)
Anyway I am where I am, and I found this
Otherwise it's off to the yellow pages to find a sparky
Being a "competent person" doesn't mean being competent. It means being a member of a trade body whose subscription would preclude the average d-i-yer.
I know all these new rules and regulations I supposed to help in the long run (pushing out cowboys / incompetents etc) but it is frustrating for those of us who have demonstrated our 'competence' over the years?
When I bought this 1897 house over 30 years ago I couldn't afford to have things done so had to do them all myself. I removed gas lights and bits of old rubber sheathed wiring, chimney breasts, concrete kitchen floor etc etc.
I then fitted a new CU, wired (it wasn't 're-wiring' because there hardly was any), ran new gas feeds etc etc. Everything I did I sought advice on before I started .. and followed that advice .. just 'common sense' in my mind?
30+ years later it's all still working .. but if I wanted to replace any of it now I wouldn't be 'competent' ?When the gas cooker, multipoint water heater, electric shower, washing machine (etc etc) go wrong I fix them (where I can and assuming I can get the parts etc), adain, in most cases just 'common sense'.
Shame there isn't a special 'D-I-Y'ers competents test' we could take just to say 'we are 'ok' to do our own work ... the work most of us have been doing anyway for many years at least?
Again, common sense would tell us if there was some special (expensive) kit that was needed to finally test / measure / sign off something we would get someone in to do so (or hire the kit etc)?
Ho hum ..
All the best ..
T i m
Actually, it means whatever the judge decides it means. Have you any precedent for your interpretation.
No. Part P has little or nothing to do with competence. It is mainly a bureaucratic procedure designed to put one man companies out of business as Mr Brown thinks they find it too easy to evade his nice taxes.
No matter how competent you might be your company must be a member of an "approved scheme", cost of this starts at about GBP700 I believe. It is the company, not the individual, which is registered (in the case of a sole trader they are the same of course) and which has to pay the annual fees.
You therefore have a situation where a vastly experienced and well qualified commercial electrician is not allowed to move a socket in his kitchen but a spotty yoof with no experience, no qualification and minimal training can be employed to do it for him so long as said yoof works for an accredited company.
In relation to Part P it doesn't even mean being a person never mind being competent.
Anyone can do electrical work, no qualifications are necessary and Part P does not alter that. It does require that "Fixed electrical installations in dwellings shall be suitably designed, installed, inspected and tested so as to provide reasonable protection against their being the source of a fire or a cause of injury to persons." This has been defined as requiring the work to comply with BS 7671.
To comply with Part P the work must be certified. This can be done in one of only two ways, as self certification for which the requirement is simply that the company be registered with a government-approved competent person scheme. These are run by trade organisations and cost several hundred pounds to join and in yearly membership. Only businesses can self certify.
Work can also be certified by notifying the local authority building control in advance of undertaking each job and paying tax of a hundred pounds or so each time you do so.
Competency has nothing to do with it.
An example of the resulting nonsense (albeit an extreme one) was a relation of a friend of mine who is a retired industrial electrician. His hobby is metal casting and foundry work. He wanted to install a new electrical furnace he had built and being someone who follows the law precisely called an "approved" firm to do the installation work. The oik who turned up was an approved domestic installer fully entitled to self certify under Part P. Unfortunately what he knew about three phase supplies could be written on the back of a stamp. After several hours he finally admitted he had no idea what he was doing and Uncle wired everything up while Oik drank tea and issued the installation certificate. To be fair the small company involved did agree not to try to charge anything for the visit.
Our LA charges £200 and recommends you get in an approved contractor. They don't seem to want to do it.
That is well shown the original installation here. Several DANGEROUS faults, and a sticker on the CU about regular testing issued by a member of NIC/IEC who had installed the system.
How about the "Corgi approved" stars of Rogue Traders?
Hmm.
Well I certainly started a thing here !
Think of it from a first time buyers point of view (like me). Only just being able to afford the mortgage, only just able to even afford the flat ! And of course because its my first place, tons of work needs doing.
Only now to find out pretty much the only thing I can do DIYing is to paint ! Oh I forgot plastering is allowed, but that trully is a skill which rules out DIYing it.
Back in my parents day, they could quite easy afford a house (infact on a single salary) and do all the work themselves.
FINALLY What I was hoping to do what get the hole house tested, after I've finished. Is that ok as long as a certificate is produced ?
OK, I get the part about the _company_ being accredited and it's employees can know bugger all about electrics ..... So, where can I find an acredited company who'll "recruit" me so I can then work for free on my home wiring?
For a wage of, say, (minus) 25 quid a lifetime?
I be prepared to bet it's going on. ;-))
DG
Beg to differ with everyones opinion of Part P, but the quality of the installer work is assessed and the technical abilities of the supervisors is also assessed so that they can perform the Qualifying Supervisors role. This person ( and this is the weak bit) is responsobile for ensuring that the quality is maintained.
I have got to say however, I am not in favour of this scheme because it is difficult to enforce. What should have been done is prevent the sale of electrical items to the general public unless the purchaser is licensed, same for gas, but this goverment has not got the balls to do that.
I to am frustrated with having to pay to register for something I have been doing for 15 years.
Regards
Steve Dawson
The catch would seem to be:
"Please note that contractors must also register with a scheme provider, and meet the Electrotechnical Assessment Scheme requirements, to be assessed as "competent enterprises". Conditions include electrical competence qualifications (eg to City and Guilds 2381 with suitable experience and training) and possession of sufficient public liability insurance."
Roughly translated as: "It was all done before April... honest guv" ;-)
If you want to do it by the book, it may be worth talking to the building control people and saying that you want to complete a full rewire over a period of time. You may find that you can submit one building notice to cover all the work. Different LAs seem to have very different approaches to this at this time - so what happens in one area does not reflect on another.
provider,
liability
I wonder just how many lethal installations Part P(iss) will cause, not through the 'cowboy' but just the fact that law abiding people will not have work done that they can't now afford?
Oh no - that would lead to even worse bodging, if proper materials weren't readily available. And anyway there's no restriction on the sale of gas parts to the general public, is there?
That is the saddest thing about the whole fiasco really. As with much nanny legislation of this type, it will end up causing the problem it stated as its objective to cure!
I know someone with 37 sockets in their room of which only three are hard wired. I was asked if I could wire in some new ones and I refused (even though it easy) so they still have lots of 4 ways on the floor.
I will blame the ODPM if anything happens.
Nope.
And what *should* have been done is for Fatty 2 Jags to mind his own damn business.
Just what DID Prescot do in the docks before before becoming DPM? Must have been highly technical and skilled. PartP must be a Piece of Pi** for him!
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