Part P

On Tuesday 19 February 2013 10:02 DerbyBorn wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Terminology:

There is no such thing as a "Part P certificate".

There's a Minor Works Certificate and an Electrical Installation Certificate; both are IET (what was called the IEE) forms.

The electrician should complete one or the other as appropriate for the job.

What a *registered* electrician can do is to self-notify the job as completed to the required standard directly to the Building Control dept via his registered body which can be one of these:

(Not sure if that list is bang upto date - first one I found).

In your case, the electrician will only notify his own work but he will have to check some core stuff, notably earth provisioning, bonding and RCD for the affected circuit (if fitted).

So, no, he will not check the other circuits in your house - only the ones relevant to the kicthen work.

Thanks - the actual wording from the Building Control calls for "We also require the following documentation before a final certificate is issued: "Electrical Certificates for Part P""

On Tuesday 19 February 2013 12:39 DerbyBorn wrote in uk.d-i-y:

That's slightly different wording to yours.

They mean "we want a MWC, EIC or PIR cert (whatever that just got renamed to) along with (where appropriate) the registered body's bumpf.

I'm supplying my BCO with a full EIC - when I'm done.

My EIC will cover work done over about 3 years (longest EIC ever?), so in the spirit of things, I will restest the earlier circuits (being ring mains and piss easy to test) and use the latest results, so the date is actually realistic :)

Err, yes there is. If you self-certify, the Governing Body will produce it and send it to the Client. On the top of mine reads: " Building Regs Part P compliance Certificate."

The Building Inspector has no need to see the Installation Certificates if you have the Part P compliance Cert.

On Tuesday 19 February 2013 16:54 A.Lee wrote in uk.d-i-y:

OK - I stand corrected... Too many years of people emphasising "Part P compliant" instead of IEE/IET Regs compliant which is what actually matters...

So that will be the 19th edition regs then;-)

On Tuesday 19 February 2013 17:56 ARW wrote in uk.d-i-y:

;->

It only took me 5 years to put the CU blanks in my CU. And I only did that because I was kitten fostering and the little sods could get anywhere.

Will the BCO not mind? I vaguely remember something about a 2 year time limit?

If not, surely you could submit a preemptive notification listing everything under the sun, pay the fees once, and then spend the next 20 years gradually doing the work as you fancied. Then, when the time comes to sell the house, call up the BCO and get them to sign off the work you've done. One set of fees paid for 20 years.

Alex

On Tuesday 19 February 2013 18:30 Alexander Lamaison wrote in uk.d-i-y:

There's no time limit to complete. The BCO told me. I think the 2 years is the time to start after notifying.

Basically - yes.

The danger is the 4th sucessor of the original BCO doesn't know what's going on, wants to look at everything again (that you covered up) and makes you do stuff to the latest regs because he doesn;t know what the regs were 15 years back :-o

Time to start? How would they know?

Excellent. I'd happily notify BCO if it weren't for the cost.

Btw, do you pay the fee when you notify or when you complete? If the latter, I may notify them of a whole load of stuff that I may or may not do.

A risk I'm willing to take. And makes for a fun game: predict the next regs. Any guesses?

Alex

I would say split load boards with 2 RCDs make way for CUs with 100% RCBOs. That gets rid of losing half the house circuits should a RCD trip and any associated collateral damage like falling over in teh dark, freezer defrosting, water pipes burst due to no power to boiler, fish die as their heated tank goes cold... etc the list goes on.

I would also say emergency lights mandated for kitchens, bathrooms, stairs, etc as they are high hazard areas with wet floors, sharp knives, chip pan fryers etc when the lights pop.

On Tuesday 19 February 2013 19:30 Alexander Lamaison wrote in uk.d-i-y:

I think they expect a site visit in the first 2 years ;->

When you start - most councils have a sliding scale of fees dependent on the "commercial cost" of what you are doing (if you paid builders etc to do it).

You can knock stuff off afterwards - but I would not overplay that card.

Triple glazing. Eventually...

I expect supplementary bonding to be brought back into bathrooms. I doubt all RCBOs will be the next step but triple RCD CUs

I cannot see that one happening.

Correct. However, the electrician doesn't have to notify their Body for up to 30 days (or longer if they're a numpty at paperwork), and then that organisation notifies Building Control electronically, who's database may or may not be updated every day/week/month/when they realise no-one's done it for a while. Meanwhile you're waiting for your completion certificate, and Building Control are saying, "not until we receive a CPS notice".

The short cut is to wave the installation certificate in the face of the BCO who can check that the electrician is listed on

OP: As far as Building Regulations go, only any notifiable alterations or additions to the electrics have to comply. The existing wiring doesn't have to be brought up to the latest standards, so long as the other work hasn't made it worse than previously.

I haven't read through the changes to the regulations thoroughly yet, but AIUI, electrical work to a kitchen will not be notifiable from April.

That prompted me to read the new Approved Document [1] from front to back and I'm over the moon! The new rules make almost everything I want to do non-notifiable.

Realistically (I don't know about you, but I don't have a swimming pool or a sauna) there are only three things left that are notifiable:

- Replacing a consumer unit

- Installing a new circuit

- Extending or altering a circuit in Zone 2 of the bathroom

And even those three have become much easier to do because 'notifiable' doesn't actually mean notify Building Control. If I'm reading it right, you can employ a member of a self-assessment scheme to check the work on your behalf.

One question this raises for me is exactly what the definition of 'consumer unit' and 'circuit' are. For instance, installing a garage 'consumer unit' on to the existing garage circuit, which is protected by the main 'consumer unit' near the meter. Is that notifiable?

Alex

But the cost of RCBOs have fallen close to the point where a triple RCD CU with MCBs will not be much cheaper than a CU fully populated with RCBOs.

In addition, you do away with nuisance tripping where one circuit trips the RCD< taking out several other circuits with it.

Its already common for public areas.

In my last house I put emergency lights in the kitchen, bathroom, Hall, Landing and stairs as I considered there was hazards from cooking, bathing/showering and walking up/down stairs.

I can see mains CO detectors becoming mandatory for rooms containing a gas appliance. Its already mandatory for rooms with a solid fuel appliance.

Stephen

I do not let the public use my toilet, bathroom or kitchen:-)

You mean if I come to visit, I have to go in the garden? What if I bring the beer?