Yet another reason to standardise on 20 amp MCB, 2.5sq mmm radial circuits, you can expand them as much as you like without requiring building regs approval.
Although reading that it would appear to effectively include any modification of a ring too, it depends on one's interpretation.
It says clearly "ring", so a ring is exempt.
typo. fixed above.
I didn't say that you can't "touch the ring main"
First of all it is a "ring final circuit".
Secondly one is allowed to change fittings.
Of course. However, it is fairly unlikely, and the intent is that installing a new circuit is a controlled activity.
They have simply listed the exemptions because they thought that they are fewer in number than listing what is controlled in detail.
By the way,,,, I am not seeking to defend this nonsense legislation. I've repeatedly said that it's bullshit and achieves nothing because it is unenforcable.
I would remind you that it was enacted by your friend Twojags and his cronies. I am sure that if this ever does become a big issue (which is unlikely), that he will seek to distance himself from it in exactly the same shameful way that he has from hunting legislation.
There doesn't need to be because there is a comma.
I know that your English abilities are not strong, so when something is expressed as (a), (b) and (c); it means (a) *and* (b) *and* (c).
It doesn't say that. It is only a special installation if the lighting set is NOT a pre-assembled lighting set bearing the CE marking referred to in regulation 9 of the Electrical Equipment (Safety) Regulations 1994
You can fit luminaires anyway. 12v is less than 50v by the way.
It says that you can replace a damaged cable.
Theoretically, all the cable segments in a ring could be damaged, but it's a bit unlikely, isn;t it?
Part L1 IIRC.
This is as I understand it, but do remember that the Approved Documents do not have the force of law - they are simply a guideline.
So the quote above can be nothing more than a recommendation, and is in effect the status quo today.
If one is down then the lot gets replaced.
Does this interpretation have any legal precedence whatsoever? It is not normal in written english to put "and" after every item in a list, merely once following the penultimate item.
So, when you slip with your hacksaw and nick the insulation of one leg of a ring, you'd rip the lot out and replace it, would you?
I don't see the term "ring final circuit".
"fairly unlikely" is not good enough. It is either black or white in regs. Installing a new cable on an existing breaker is not a new circuit.
Not interested in opinions.. It is either black or white.
No.by the relevant deptarbntments. I'm 2Jags doesn't know what a ring mains is.
He voted again hunting I believe. Fox hunters? I would burn the lot 'em.
No and after (a) when there is after others, so (a) is excluded. Simple.
But you can't take away the rose and fit a j box and transformer with wires to the downlighters. Something to do with cowboys and kitchens again.
Isn't this so that plumbers don't need to jump through the hoops when doing pipework that needs earthing ?
"Andy Hall" wrote | "special installation" means an electric floor or ceiling heating | system, a garden lighting or electric power installation, an | electricity generator, or an extra-low voltage lighting system which | is *** NOT a pre-assembled lighting set *** bearing the CE marking | referred to in regulation 9 of the Electrical Equipment (Safety) | Regulations 1994[8]
(my emphasis *** added)
This would appear to mean that if you buy a pre-assembled lighting set of transformer and luminaires you can DIY, but if you buy a transformer and luminaires separately it becomes a special installation and thus certifiable?
Owain
Right - there is a tendency for the Approved documents to "extend" the law, which really irritates me 'cos there are enough real regulations without f***head's office inventing them
There is one big change in the status quo. Currently, if we add a socket and skimp on the inspection/testing, we may end on the wrong side of the civil law. After 1st Jan, if we do anything which doesn't comply with regs, we could end up with a criminal record ( s35, Building Act 1984).
Ditto for the professionals though, which might be the silver lining....
Well, it certainly isn't a ring main, otherwise you would be working out in the road !..
You don't use hacksaws on cables sunny boy. Best you get pro in.
I'm not interested in assumptions or opinions.
as suspected. utterly avoided the question.
That is the term in BS7671. In the SI it is referred to as a ring circuit.
I agree. The intent of the legislation is that you should be able to replace *a* cable.
You have stretched it to the point that the entire ring would need to be replaced. That would mean a new circuit and is therefore not exempt. A damaged cable means just that - e.g. somebody banged a nail through a section. It is unlikely that somebody would systematically bang a nail through every section of cable in a ring. That is what I meant by "fairly unlikely".
It is an obvious loophole.
That is the problem. Twojags and his cronies have done such a poor job of drafting the legislation that it is full of potential loopholes. This is not a surprising outcome.
I don't think he knows which day of the week it is. I can assure you that his cronies knew what they were *trying* to do.
I have a letter in my file from Raynsford in answer to a letter written to him by my MP, where it is clear that his hand had been in this.
It is typical for these characters now to try to distance themselves from unenforceable and unnecessary legislation. Prescott tried it today with regard to the hunting legislation and seriously expects people to believe him.
.. and DIY electricians no doubt.
I suspect that you probably are.
Who knows? There are transformers that fit in place of ceiling roses and power pairs of wires onto which are clipped lamps.
It's clear enough in this case. It is common to create long sentences in legalese precisely so that the punctuation controls the meaning.
Equally, sometimes extra words are added, which in common-use English scan badly. For example, if you look at the text of a European Union Directive you will see that it is plastered with "whereases" If you take these out, the document becomes more easily readable.
I like to do a ring without actually breaking the conductors where possible. Loop in/loop out, **carefully** removing the insulation. = Single bit of cable. Do it that way, and you only have to "accidentally" nick one section when it is time to replace the ring, and oh dear, the whole circuit has to be changed. What a shame!
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