Part P (again)



It **is** (a) and (b) and (c). That is the way legislation reads.
Part P translates this as
"Work that is not in a kitchen or special location and does not involve a special installation and consists of:.... Adding lighting points (light fittings and switches) to an existing circuit Adding socket-outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit Installing or upgrading main or supplementary equipotential bonding"
i.e. (a) and (b) and (c)
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You're going to look for a long time in any legislation enacted by this government.,

A ring main is not used for interior house wiring. A ring circuit (correctly ring final circuit) is.
It may or may not be necessary to replace more than one section of cable if it is damaged.
However, I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. I already said that I thought the legislation was a nonsense, so I see no reason to try to justify its idiocies.

Would you like me to send you a copy of the letter from Raynsford?

Obviously. He seems to be as confused as you are.

As I said, would you like me to send you a copy of the letter from Raynsford?

Don't be stupid. It's perfectly obvious both from the text and the context that it is all three.
--

.andy

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Andy Hall wrote:

Perhaps an example would help...
It would appear that IMM has a poor grasp of basic English, lacks comprehension, and has a limited ability to type.
Clearly all three apply.
To make the first part of a sentence of similar construction exclusive we would need an "or". Thus: it would appear that IMM has a poor grasp of basic English, or, he has made a basic error, and is too intransigent to admit it.
Simple, obvious.
--
Cheers,

John.

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I am brilliant at English and life in general.
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So then, we can deduce that you lack comprehension and have limited typing ability with your statement? Now that's brilliant English.
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I repeat "am brilliant at English and life in general".
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Is that "simple or obvious" or "simple and obvious"? I'd have thought it would be simply obvious. :-)
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BigWallop wrote:

Perhaps IMM can interpret for us?
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Cheers,

John.

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it
I already have, quite simple of course.
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You are obviously very simple.
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whole thing totally stupid! Bullshit! un-enforceable!
66,000 electrical contracting businesses in the UK! 10,000 registered with NICEIC, 3000 with ECA hence 50,000 firms or 70% approx of the Electrical Contracting industry will be working illegally in January! unless they register with an approved scheme - in other words - pay the cash - get a card!
schemes hurriedly being set up - cause there's money in it! NICEIC have said(they can increase resources, staff, buildings, administration, etc) by 500% in 6 months - BULLSHIT!
What about plumbers, kitchen fitters, bedroom fitters, little builders, conservatory guys, garden landscapers, and a host of other trades who fiddle with electrics? all now illegal! Hence CORGI, FENSA etc are trying to set up schemes for limited scope certification (government guidelines apparently published this week but I haven't found em yet) They are all in this 'cause there is money to be made!!
T'is a money making scam the likes of which Jimmy Hoffa would be proud!
Me-thinks the electric police will not be bothering the DIY guy for a while cause - there is no DIY police (Building Control have no electrical inspectors - and they are few and far between hence they will be busy - no-one can train any new ones cause no-one knows how to do it - pay yer money get the card!) and they have bigger fish in sight (50,000 electrical contacting businesses)
Incidentally - I spent some 20 years investigating fires / deaths etc - I have seen a number of electrocutions, equally suicides and accidents or faulty appliances. Many fires due to a number of causes including faulty appliances and misuse of appliances. I have never seen a fire attributable to faulty electrical wiring. You try to set something on fire with normal electrical wiring and fittings - you cannot do it - try it? It can be done but is extremely difficult - try it -nb I will not responsible if anyone tries it and burns the house down!
BULLSHIT - IGNORE IT - NOT ENFORCEABLE
IN the meantime - dont forget that every-one has a legal (HSW act) and a moral responsibility (civil law) to ensure what they do is safe! If you cock it up and hurt someone or damage something - it is your responsibility and you could pay the price - compensation , fines, jail. That's the bottom line - do it right then there will not be a problem.
Cheers - this has been winding me up for a while!!
Nb :- coincidence new wiring colours - so the non-existent electric police can tell what is old work and what is new? coincidence house buyers package with certificates etc?
Jimmy Hoffa - you need to go to the likes NICEIC, ECA or CORGI for lessons in how to get control of an industry!
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The trade press makes for amusing reading. Stuffed full of complaints by electricians about both Part P and the new wiring colours, and stuffed full of adverts to join the accredited organisations. It would seem that takeup has been very low, leaving majority of electricians, in particular most of those who do domestic work, outside accredited schemes.
Also, a number of electricians near retirement age have decided this is the moment to bail out and put their feet up.

NICEIC just bought out one of the other schemes (making somewhat of a mochary of the ODPM emsuring there were several to choose from).

I know CORGI and FENSA are in on the act. I suspect the government is starting to get concerned that electricians aren't willing to join any of the schemes.
--
Andrew Gabriel

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On 24 Nov 2004 23:32:32 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

I'm just waiting for Prescott to be interviewed on the Today program and say that it's really not that important anyway and he doesn't know what all the fuss is about.
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.andy

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perhaps Jimmy should have consulted the ODPM - maybe he would not have got a concrete overcoat - MBE? eh? I am a labour supporter - but perhaps not next time.
(Andrew

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wrote:

(a) Lots of work falls outside Part P so it will not be illegal. (b) My very limited experience of electrics as done by kitchen fitters is that perhaps they should regulated (also q.v. the case of Jenny Tonge's daughter and the cooker hood installed by a professional firm with a cable wandering across the wall)
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Rich Williams

Does Part P only apply to England and Wales? Coming from the deputy prime ministers office I would have thought it was fro all the UK.
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The Scots and NI are free to do their own thing. For energy, Part L, Part J and Part F are all different, which makes life interesting for those of us who write software to check for compliance.
http://www.sda.co.uk/info/shw/shewsni.htm
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Imm wrote:

But are the Scots and Irish going over to condensing boilers in 2005?
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On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 22:52:04 +0000, Rich Williams wrote:

This is more or less my take on it. Unenforceable!
FENSA and CORGI were able to become regulators for two different reasons neither of which apply for Electrics.
FENSA because there really was not much of a diy replacment window market or window replacment by general tradesmen.
CORGI because most people and a lot of tradersmem would not dream of 'having a go' with gas.
With electrics there are many thousands of specialist firms who are not registered and several million general tradesmen and diyers who are comfortable with minor (and not so minor) electrical work.
I am waiting to see how the public/govt/media react to the reality in January, to see what line I'll take. Most of my customers would take the view "I'd rather have you working on the electrics than someone I don't know". I guess that will go for the majority of tradesmen who have a customer base.
--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
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IMM wrote:

Not in this world; as explained in gory detail in an earlier response, this is UK drafting convention to show "and"ing of *all* clauses in the list. Learn it, live with it.
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