Strange that coming from a man who laid a wreath at grave of the planner of the massacre of Israeli athletes at the 1972 Olympics, and calls Hammas and Hezbollah his friends. I am sure it was all done in the name of free speech...
I wonder for how long he is going to get suspended from the Labour party?
But at least Shami write-whatever-you-like-in-the-report-and-I'll-sign-it-as-long-as-I-get-my-seat-in-the-lords Chakrabarti told us that there is nothing to worry about it.
I'm sorry but this is a load of old tosh. people have views colooured by their life experiences. If people do not like something then fine, don't bother about it, luckily, as far as I'm aware, Mural painters do not dictate polices in this country yet. In my view there are also many Jews out there witth equally blinkered views of gentiles and everyone else, so you are never ever going to convince one mindset that they are wrong. its about time we all agreed to differ and also agreed to have an open and free society. Brian
But one man's freedom to paint an offensive mural contradicts another man's freedom to walk down the street and not be offended by it. And if the mural stirs up racial hatred, then it may lead to someone else's freedom not to be beaten up being infringed.
The short version: You don't have an open and free society if everybody is free to do and say just whatever they want.
I totally agree.
My point though was about good old friendly and principled granddad Corbyn:
There is no argument that the mural could have easily been painted in Nazi Germany 1933-1945.
Even if, as he claimed, he did not notice the problem at the time, he was contacted directly in 2015 for a comment about his Facebook contribution, but chose to ignore it. So his first reply was clearly a lie.
He is 100% entitled to his views and his opinions (feel free to add Russia and Venezuela to the pot) which are well known and documented. But does he really think that anyone (over the age of 15 and/or with an IQ of over 80) actually believes his sudden change of mind?
I'll be able to tell you more later - I'm going along to the Parliament Sq protest tonight so I'll see if I can ask some...
My understanding is that, not down to just one incident, but rather the drip drip of a number of incidents and comments from senior Labour people, some jewish people are feeling quite nervous of Labour as it's all a bit reminiscent of Germany ("it started in a small way, like this..." are words I heard recently)
Whether that view reflects those of many or not I might find out later.
Wonder if there are any lengths you Labour haters will stop at in an attempt to discredit them?
Surely if Tim is going to voice his dislike of antisemitism that's the right thing to do?
If someone was only interested in sneakily hurting Labour wouldn't they just sit tight-lipped, knowing that the Jewish community would be unlikely to vote for Labour/Corbyn because they had discredited themselves?
I only report what I hear (and that's one reason I'm going - to find out more) - and I would have thought you'd been in favour for standing up against minority victimisation, based on what you've been saying in the other thread?
As for "hating Labour" - I think we need a competent opposition at all points - I have little love of the Tory party either (though given a straight choice I'd vote for them over Labour *at this point*. But I'd rather vote for a party that actually was going to make Britain better, which is neither of those two.
As to Labour today: some of the characters in senior positions are an utter joke and not a terribly funny one at that.
I have just answered this in another post, so I won't repeat it here :)
I'm very uncomfortable that it seems perfectly OK to criticise any Islamic state or person - including those who are our allies or UK citizens - but anything negative said about Israel or one of the Jewish religion immediately brings forth cries of antisemitism.
It sounds to me as if you are definitely supporting the right party.
+1
Criticising a state is quite legitimate. Israel can be legitimately criticised for some of its actions towards its neighbours, as can some Muslim states, recognised or otherwise. But to criticise or tolerate criticism of a Jewish or Muslim person or group merely because they're Jewish or Muslim is unacceptable, and puts the person doing the criticising into the same moral sewer as the likes of Harry.
Gerald Kaufman was an outspoken critic of some of Israel's actions, but you could hardly accuse him of being anti-Semitic!
Corbyn is just a victim of a concerted campaign, driven as much by American interests as Israel, to make boycotting Israeli goods unacceptable, and to make any criticism of Israel into "anti-semitism". Perhaps some Jewish groups agree with doing this, but others are probably victims of dishonest propaganda.
Well - I can only report what I hear, but...
Went to the protest, listened to Luciana Berger MP and Wes Streeting MP, who both spoke at length. Then said hello to and spoke with a couple of random jewish bods in the audience - seemed quite level headed and ordinary blokes.
They were certainly concerned about Labour as is today, forming a government - and the concern runs wider than just Corbyn and Livingstone.
As I say, I only report as I heard.
+1
I've told jewish folks I campaign against unstunned animal slaughter - but I can separate a criticism of 2 Abrahamic faiths from my day to day interactions with followers of either faith. They were perfectly cool with that.
I'm often uncomfortable with the hard line that Israel takes, even taking history into account, but whoever is in the whitehouse they seem to end up supporting them in the end (whether with a grin, or a grimace) which is all Israel needs to carry on ...
On Today this morning the interviewer asked the bloke from the British Board of Jews (or whatever) how people were supposed to criticise Israeli policies and he seemed to be saying that anti-zionism was as bad as anti-semitism so effectively no-one is allowed to criticise Israel. I don't see why people shouldn't be "allowed" to say that the foundation of the state of Israel was a big mistake - even if we (Brits) were partly responsible for it.
wot a load of ballux, nazi germany!! and Labour, don't be so stupid man, this is all about the May (month not Her) elections, have you not noticed the Tory party are now getting into win at any cost mode. Every two weeks there will be a blackening of Corbins name. Nerve poisons, Russian spies, Brexit referendum arguments. There are Tory members of the labour party who cannot abide Corbyn, these are the old guard Blairites who worry that their standard of living is going to fall, they will help the Tories in any way they can. Do you not remember the way Milliband and his father was attacked by the Mail because they were labour Jews.I did not see many Jews standing up for those two people, mainly because their politics came before their religion.
You are not allowed to criticise Israel full stop. Their treatment of Palestinians has,at times, been absolutely disgusting.The enemies they make will be their undoing.
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