Ot: Or not. tower fire...

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Yup - standard way for a council to not have to deal with problems themselves.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

The company who made the cladding also make a more fire resistant one. More expensive, of course. So someone when pouring through their catalogue decided the cheaper and more flammable one was OK.

[mechanic]

Of course, and from the interviews taken by Sky and the BBC clearly the tower offered cheap housing, mainly to newcomers to our country. Sadly we may never know the final death numbers, illegals won't leave much trace of their presence, and physical evidence, including bodies, will have been destroyed in the fire. Even counting those missing from the top few stories will be impossible. The mayor has a job to do here.

[mechanic]

Phew! Who needs enquiries when such insights are freely available?

[The Other Mike]

There are claims it was 150mm Celotex RS5000 in the Daily Fail, the charring certainly looks similar to its expected performance with no evidence of the foil which presumably has melted.

Datasheet

[tabbypurr]

Preliminary insights are freely available and many. An inquiry is to find what other issues exist, what failings made how much difference, who is to blame for what, what should be done in future and of course produce test results to prove their position.

That there is any mystery in this only speaks to the complete idiocy of the non-mechanic, yet again.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Sounds of Turnip shooting himself in the foot again.

And I have this lovely vision of him spending all day everyday Hoovering.

[Robin]

How does a council impose a TMO on tenants?

Or are you just assuming that they are all the result of councils being nasty - including of course the many councils which have been Labour run for decades?

[whisky-dave]

People that can't think for themseleves or those that haven't the time to look and go through whatever evidence there is.

[Max Demian]

c) Immunity from murder charge if there is a driver in the vehicle who refuses to move.

[tabbypurr]

I can't see what that has to do with it. Unless you're proposing ramming be done at high speed en masse! Running speed ought to be enough.

NT

[Roland Perry]

In message , at

10:59:45 on Thu, 15 Jun 2017, Robin remarked:

OK, so the management faults lie with the tenants?

[Robin]

I can't think why anyone would think that follows - unless they are the sort of person who thinks the customers are to blame if eg they pay a registered electrician to fit a new CU and the electrician leaves the main earth disconnected.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

It was described yesterday as an aluminium (about 5mm thick) sandwich with a insulating filling. Unless there was additional Celotex.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In the same way as they impose anything?

Why bring politics into it? Or are you trying to make out every Tory council is perfect?

I'd say running any large estate means lots of complaints etc to deal with. Some true, some not. Shovelling it all of to someone else to deal with simply par for the course. And it looks good on paper - reducing the numbers the council employ directly.

[The Natural Philosopher]

It didn't burn like celotex (doesn't).

[Martin Brown]

Likely debonded and peeled back at the corners allowing fire to get in.

That is the outer rainproof cosmetic layer which although it was blamed yesterday on Newsnight may well not have been the main fuel load.

A thick layer of alu-coated insulating foam behind the fascia is clearly visible in the gaps at bottom left and right on this picture:

Worse there looks to be a triangular chimney running up the front of each of the vertical pillars.

Looks to me like brown rigid PU between foil sandwich (other brands of foam are available). The stuff on the ground and still clinging to the building also looks like thick charred rigid foam rather than thin elegant panels which may well also have melted/burnt away in the fire.

[Mike Tomlinson]

En el artículo , Robin escribió:

How is that distinct from an ALMO (arm's length management organisation)? Is an ALMO even a legal entity?

[Robin]

Do you think that reply is going to lead many people to think you actually have the faintest idea how a TMO is set up?

Full marks for irony.

I was only trying to tease out if you think all councils are self-serving or just some.

[The Other Mike]

The Celotex just looks charred and essentially intact on recent coverage, directly torching the core of a sample of Celotex GA4000 some time ago with a propane torch produced a similar result to the surfaces visible on the building, so its experienced a temperature sufficient to debond the aluminium foil from the PIR or melt the aluminium.

The polyethylene core in the cladding is criminal regardless of the manufacturers claims for it.