OT ish Slow Windows

[Huge]

Particularly in Google image searches ...

[F]

[snip]

I thought I'd give that a try here but it refuses to run on Windows 8.1. Is it really only for XP, Vista, 7 and 8?

[dennis]

Its usually the linux users that complain that they can't read the stuff written by M$.

[dennis]

Like you drag up even older issues about windows.

[dennis]

Linux can't either, if it did then the program could start executing random code if it had to drag in a page from the library that you have just changed. At best linux can add another library to the system and the program may start to use that library when it is restarted. If you can do as you claim it would be one hell of a security hole.

You never need to defrag NTFS, you know the one that was introduced about 15 years ago.

Odd that we used to have to defrag the Plexus machines we had >15 years ago. Of course it wasn't called defrag, it was called testing the backups and you used to reload the backup which removed the fragmentation from the drive. You used to test the backup whenever the machines started to slow down.

When it consisted of three machines that was true.

Networking came much later than Unix.

We weren't, System X ran on a real-time OS not unix but I did add a unix SVr5 subsystem onto all the exchanges to manage the billing and communications with the backend offices.

Not yet, probably never.

Only since it became free as Unix was far more expensive than windows.

My point is that Unix was a professionally engineered and *expensive* OS. Linux came along and destroyed the Unix market just like you want it to destroy windows.

Snip more windows bashing based on irrelevant personal views (not experience).

[Tim Streater]

Unclear. I first saw unix running on a PDP-11/45 at DEC Western Research Lab (Palo Alto) in 1977. Earlier than that, at CERN, we had been building networks, based on our own hardware and software and using coax cable. These were point to point links up to a few km and running (for the shorter links) at up to 5Mbps.

Xerox produced XNS, which is what the Altos and Stars used over early ethernet in the early 80s. AIUI, that might have become the wider networking standard except that Xerox refused to release the specs for some of the higher networking layers. Also by this time the unix boys were busy creating IP, which then took over from XNS because it was free and available with unix, and people had started writing IP stacks for other machines, such as VAXes and some IBM systems.

But mail and file transfer had been going on using ad-hoc methods anyway for some years.

[Robin]

I thought Ethernet was invented in the early 70s at Palo Alto.

And you must be right about email as HM sent her first email in 1976 over ARPANET :)

[Huge]

It was, initially 3Mb/s, referred to as "research Ethernet" at Xerox. But what protocol(s) ran over it were a different matter. At one time there were a number of competing ones; X25, XNS, IPX/SPX (which was related to XNS), AppleTalk, DECNet. Mostly gone now & replaced by TCP/IP.

[dennis]

OK TCP networking rather than uucp over serial links, etc.

[The Natural Philosopher]

It can and does

if it did then the program could start executing

No, that's not how it works. Shows how little you understand about linux.

Ret doing te research.

Exactly.

You haven't understood what I said then

Really?

"...But over time, even NTFS performance can suffer due to less-than-optimal file placement. This gave birth to a thriving market of third-party defragmentation tools."

What os were they running and what disk format did they use?

Liunx supports FAT and BTDS you know...ut just tries not to make them default, because they are resoanbl;y crap

Again you betray a staggering amount of ignorance.

"In 1965, Thomas Marill and Lawrence G. Roberts created the first wide area network (WAN). This was an immediate precursor to the ARPANET, of which Roberts became program manager."

Unix was first written in 1969., 4 years later..

Lets look at the internet - the first internet was DARPAnet..

"In August 1968, after Roberts and the DARPA funded community had refined the overall structure and specifications for the ARPANET, an RFQ was released by DARPA for the development of one of the key components, the packet switches called Interface Message Processors (IMP's). "

Cisco - which was one of the first dedicated routers- wasn't formed until 1984.

Prior to that Unix computers were the most common internet routers.

What are you dribbling about?

Actually it wasn't.

I installed a modem on a SCO linux system to pickup email for a form of lwayers. 50 laywers had terminal to that little box, and te Unix cots about £1000 and te apps a bit more.

Cosrt per desktop was a couple of huindsred, and one laywer kept it goimng in his spare time.

The typical price of a PC on a desk in the late 90s including sofdwtare, hardware, maintenance and support was £3000 a desktop per year.

I dont have to want it to destroy windows, Windows is doingt that for itself.

I've been in IT since 1980. On Unix linux macs and PCFS. And real time custom code as well.

Windows isn't dead yet. It just smells that way, and it has no future.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Ot isn't. Linux (Libre office) can in fact read MS word docs that MSword users of the previous version cannot.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Except even microsoft admits that they are current issues as the link I posted shows.

Fanboi.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Not sure X25 wasn't an entirely different wire level protocol. You are correct with the others though.

I remember getting TCP/IP to work over X25 and indeed token ring...

[Vir Campestris]

My 'phone (non-Android) is an ARM. I'll take a good bet that so is the printer, the scanner, the VHS player and the bread maker - to pick what's in touching range. I could be wrong on the last two.

Andy

[Vir Campestris]

I run Windows here. I have an anti-virus. I've actually seen it trigger once or twice when spam arrives - but never really in anger. (I wasn't going to run that exe...)

The same set of safety techniques you use on a Linux box have served me well here on Windows.

I stand by what I said; there are a lot of idiots using Windows. Those servers you mention are not, by and large, run by idiots, nor by the naive.

And as for Linux holes "usually being fixed promptly" - well, just come up with a good argument for our corporate IT on why they ought to move away from Ubuntu 12.04. Fixed isn't necessarily rolled out.

Andy

[dennis]

Go on then as I can't prove a negative its up to you to prove your unsubstantiated claim.

The same is true of any file system on a rotating disk. If you don't put the bits together sequential access is slower and if you don't put frequently accessed stuff in the right place seeks will slow it down. You don't need to defrag NTFS ever.

Some variant of berkley *Unix*, I have no idea which filesystem they used but there wasn't much choice as I recall.

An ultra reliable OS that runs telephone exchanges with an availability that makes unix look cr@p.

Actually it was.

And you don't call that expensive?

I was designing the systems not using them.

You have said that many times why should this time be different? You even have to drag so called based on linux systems in so you can claim linux is "winning", whatever that means.

[Vir Campestris]

In Windows if a program has a DLL loaded it has an open handle to the file with a write lock. That stops the code getting changed on the fly. Seems quite sensible.

AIUI (and ICBW) in Linux the file (inode) will hang around, and the name will be associated to the new file. Which means new processes get the new file.

But I don't understand how existing processes get the bug fix. I suspect they don't.

Andy

[dennis]

There are issues in all OS so what? You still keep dragging up 15 year old ones. Its a good job nobody drags up 15 year old linux issues.

[dennis]

Rubbish, anyone can install the reader software and read them, it is free to.

[Vir Campestris]

Just been trying to explain that one to my wife... (our boiler went off several times last winter)

Andy