OT - Internet connection speeds - banding at the exchange

This is sort of DIY but internet related rather than plumbing or building

I have a friend locally who was having problems with the internet connection (EE if it matters). She was sent a new router and spoke to the support folks but she couldn't understand what they were asking her to do.

Anyway in summary.

Web site prediction based on postcode 3-5 Mb - guaranteed minimum 2Mb. Her WiFi connected PC and BT wholesale speed checker 0.25Mb.

My laptop connected to router with cable, router connected to master socket with no extension, telephone line disconnected, logged into the routers admin page - connected at 0.25Mb

On phone to EE tech support for about an hour, very friendly do a lot of tests from their end accept that service is unusable and offer discount for the unusable period.

But where he lost me was on the fix. He reckons that BT (open-reach presumably) had put a hardware "band" on the physical cables at the exchange and this would have to be removed. (2 to 4 days so we are still waiting to see if this is indeed the fix).

I asked more about this "band". Its apparently to stop the cables completely breaking if you try and push to much data down dodgy cables (now his or my understanding have reached the end of the line). He says it is frequently done but should never be as severe as on this line and has almost certainly been applied in error.

I have looked on Google for Banding telecom data cables but no joy.

Does this make sense to Anyone???

Reply to
Chris B
Loading thread data ...

On the face of it this sounds like bollocks. "Completely breaking" - what does *that* mean?

Unless it's those ferrite jobs you see on some cables (I can see about seven of those from where I'm sitting, on USB cables) but quite what they do I'm not sure.

Reply to
Tim Streater

Yes that was my impression too but I thought I would give him the benefit of the doubt. He seemed to be talking about the wires fusing, now I can see this happening if you try and push to many amps down wires but too many bits??????

Reply to
Chris B

What sort of ping time does it give?

EE modems will let you see line statistics if you go past the scary warning "here be dragons page".

Click on Advanced Accept System DSL Status

And report what you see on that web page. My rural line on EE and on their default modem at the moment gives:

DSL Status

This page shows information about your DSL connection. If you are using Fibre/Ethernet Broadband then this page is not applicable.

Status Configured Current

Line Status -- UP

Link Type -- Interleaved Path

Operation Mode Automatic G.992.1 (G.DMT)

Data Rate Information

Upstream 448 (Kbps)

Downstream 5312 (Kbps)

Defect/Failure Indication

Operation Data Upstream Downstream

Noise Margin 21.0 (dB) 8.2 (dB)

Line Attenuation 27.0 (dB) 47.0 (dB)

Indicator Name Near End Indicator Far End Indicator

Output Power 12.1 (dBm) 19.9 (dBm)

Fast Path FEC Correction -- --

Interleaved Path FEC Correction 42546 0

Fast Path CRC Error -- --

Interleaved Path CRC Error 0 306

Loss of Signal Defect 10 0

Fast Path HEC Error STR -- --

Interleaved Path HEC Error 0 179

Error Seconds 4254 0

Statistics

Received Data 5934682 (Kbits)

Transmitted Data 924730 (Kbits)

I did have to bribe several BT engineers with tea and biscuits to get such a clean line. The norm in my village is nearer 2Mbps.

You need to look at the sync rate and noise margins really. Cable connection to router rules out local Wifi interference.

They may put some sort of filter on but I can't see that this level of fault can be anything other than a bad joint somewhere in the signal path - possibly one involving an aluminium to copper corroded joint. That is what destroys broadband I asked more about this "band".  Its apparently to stop the cables

This makes no sense at all and sounds like bovine excrement. ADSL is rate adaptive and the line will run with whatever signal to noise it can support. If you keep on getting disconnects because of really bad noise then the reconnect speed goes into a spiral of death down to 256k.

Until we can see the modem statistics it is all guesswork.

Even diurnal variations are visible if you care to monitor it.

I doubt if it made any sense to the tech support guy spouting it either.

Reply to
Martin Brown

Banding is a limit applied by the exchange if the connection keeps breaking.

Basically if your router is being regularly disconnected *for whatever reason* then your data rate is restrcited so as to give you a better chance of getting anything at all.

How they do this hardware or siftware is another matter.

Same as when you install a new router, you'll be advised that it will take time for the router to "settle down". Basically the longer it stays connected the higher the band you should be getting. There are sometimes arguments between customers and ISP's as to how often this is being checked and their banding upgraded. ISTR once every 24 hours being one quoted figure,

Just google "bands" routers etc.

michael adams

...

Reply to
michael adams

Sounds te same to me.

Find out what S/N ration he is wirking at

Stop RF propagating down the 'skin' of the cables

If the postcode lookup sez you should be getting X you should be.

In general failure to get speed is down to seriously bad cables, or a LOT of interference on a long line - often from other users.

BT openreach can (if pushed, and treated to good tea and cake, or donuts and coffee), select a 'quiet' pair and remake every joint to get the noise down.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

# Thats not 'banding' thats the BRAS or IP profile

formatting link

What in general happens is that a minimum noise margin will be applied to the line such that it wont connect at higher spoeeds than would cause the noise margin to be exceeded. Probabky 9dB on a long line.

THEN the BRAS is automatically calculated fromn the resultant synch speed.

The point of the BRAS is NOT to send data that has to be biffered in BTs DSLAM at the excahange. Ther is, as I discovered , no upload limit though - you can send as fast as you can synch.

ISP can get an IP profile reset in minutes...

But getting noise off a line means a call out to Openereach.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Sorry its ten miles from me and I don't have access today _ I didn't record the advanced data but I have saved this page and will if I get called back because the "fix" doesn't work.

Well they did remote resets of the router and remote logons to the router - I guess he will have checked all of this stuff - I didn't have to argue with him, having explained what I had already done he didn't just work though a script with me anyway and was quite open that there was a problem.

Quite what he did I don't know but he did make us hang up the land line and he called us back on a mobile. I was on the mobile for the biggest part of an hour, which included several remote reboots instigated from their end and several "I will just try and do so and so and you will be on hold for about 5 mins whilst I do that". Then he would come back to say no sorry that didn't make it any better.

In the end he said that he had done absolutely everything he could remotely, they had identified this "band" on the cable and it would have to be fixed on site (2 to 4 days)

Reply to
Chris B

Never heard of such a band. I will ask my tame telco employee next time I see him. I can believe that they found a bad joint by TDR testing and will have to wait for BT Openreach to remake it. Usually they say something like line fault (break) so many metres from the premises.

When they ask you to hang up the landline is about when they do the test. You really don't want to be listening when they ping it with a big pulse. Such tests sometimes heal a borderline intermittent failure.

Reply to
Martin Brown

Well that is bollocks.

He was obviosly relaying something he didnt understand.

What he may have been saying is that that particular cable is so crap it is in a band marked 'voice only' :-)

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Chris B expressed precisely :

It is complete piffle. It reads as if their is some fault on the line or EE are doing some very serious traffic shaping.

Never try to check upload and download speeds via a wifi connection. It needs to be done via a wired connection to the router.

Reply to
Harry Bloomfield

Or "banned" for use with ADSL connections.

A line that has been DACS'd for instance to make two POTS circuits.

Reply to
Martin Brown

Broadband Faults Guide - Banding Guide

WBC 160k - 288k 160kbps to 288kbps WBC 288k - 576k 288kbps to 576kbps WBC 576k - 1M 576kbps to 1152kbps WBC 1M - 2M 1152kbps to 2272kbps WBC 1M - 3M 1472kbps to 3072kbps WBC 2M - 4M 2272kbps to 4544kbps WBC 3M - 6M 3328kbps to 6656kbps WBC 4M - 9M 4864kbps to 9728kbps WBC 7M - 14M 7168kbps to 14336kbps WBC 160k - 24M Unbanded (up to 24576kbps)

Above are the levels of banding that can be applied to your line by DLM (Dynamic Line Management). Banding is applied when your connection drops on a regular basis. The banding slows your connection by restricting your connection rate. For example, if your connection drops

10 times within 24 hours, you may notice that your connection is banded to WBC 4M-9M this means your connection will only be allowed to synchronise at a maximum of 9728Kbps. Your speeds are lowered to try and help your line stabilise. Normally, your line should be WBC 160K-24M which essentially means, your connection can synchronise anywhere between 160Kbps up to 24576Kbps - this is a profile with no banding on it. In a lot of cases if you have a fault where your connection has dropped out, your profile will be restricted to WBC 160K-288K which means you'll only see speeds of around 250Kbps.

HTH (Although I very much doubt it in your case, as you're quite clearly beyond help )

formatting link

michael adams

Reply to
michael adams

THEY don't work AT ALL.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Not really unless the terminology is wrong. I wonder if its interconnection with other cables either capacitive or something else. Brian

Reply to
Brian Gaff

Ferrites on cables are supposed by adding to the inductance stop radiation from cables getting out and into domestic equipment etc. Often used by radio hams to stop their transmissions being picked up on speaker or line connectors as well.

I do not believe one can break a connection physically by shoving data down it, but group delays and reflections in standard copper cables can limit the frequencies you can put down them of course, which could be seen as a break in connection. Brian

Reply to
Brian Gaff

Besides, copper all the way over twisted pair is as bad as shoving it up the mains, lossy and interference generating, no wonder they need firrite rings everywhere. Brian

Reply to
Brian Gaff

The OP asked about bands.

Plusnet produce a page explaining what banding is. Supporting what I'd suggested earlier but in more detail

The Plusnet page I quoted lists ten separate bands.

As a matter of interest what would you call them, instead of "bands" ?

Except that the Op didn't ask about BRAS or IP profile did he ?

He asked about bands

What do you always have to complicate things ?

The fact that the people who he's talking to on the phone don't seem to have a clue is not entirely unexpected. But that's another matter entirely.

But whatever you choose to call it the usual advice is to never switch off your router unless absolutely necessary for precisely this reason that it can trigger DLM at the exchange. Although whether once a day would be enough is another matter.

michael adams

...

Reply to
michael adams

Im not. I was simplifying things by oointing out that no one calls thhe IP profile 'banding'

And if you knew anythiung about anything,m you weould know that you don'tt send and engineer on siet to fix and IP profile.

And neither do you. You are adding compication where none exists.

If he has a low IP profile its because he has a shit sync speed. If he has a shit sync speed its because the line is f***ed in some way.

End of.

That is consistent with sending an engineer out.

All your babble about banding in ...unnecessary complication.

I bet you are a socialist, too.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

So which part of

For example, if your connection drops 10 times within 24 hours, you may notice that your connection is banded to WBC 4M-9M this means your connection will only be allowed to synchronise at a maximum of 9728Kbps.

formatting link

(which is essentially what I said in my opening post) are you having the greatest difficulty with ?

michael adams

...

Reply to
michael adams

HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.