OT ICE engined cars to be banned in Netherlands?

[Sam Plusnet]

Have they factored in the increased load on electricity generation?

I wonder just how big that increase would be as a percentage of current(!) demand?

[harry]

They were taken over by Volvo and closed down a few years later.

They still make trucks and buses.

[harry]

There are various designs. The simplest is a front wheel drive ICE with and electric rear wheel drive. The mechanical connection is the highway.

There are series designs (similar to submarines and parellel devices. I expect at some point one system or the other will come out on top.

Electric "motors" and "generators" are the same thing. In electric cars one device does both.

[harry]

700 mile ranges are not even on the horizon. There might be cars where the battery electrolyte is changed to "recharge" the battery.

[harry]

Most electric cars will be charged at home, by night. It's the only way the system could stand it.

[charles]

From your solar panels. I assume

[The Natural Philosopher]

I did that calc once. Hard top be exact but to move to all electric vehicles is probably around doubling the grid, and to move to all electric everything else is around trebling it.

IIRC the total UK consumption of energy is around 350GW average, but of course some of that fuel burn is in inefficient IC engines.

100 Hinkley points would power rhe entire country for everything.

Dont even ask how many solar panels....or windmills

[Chris Hogg]

250%

Government estimates that in 2014 UK road transport used 40 mtoe (million tonnes of oil equivalent)*. That's 40 x 11630 GWh, or 465200 GWh, i.e. a power requirement of 53 GW (465200/365/24). Average UK electrical power consumption at present is about 35 GW. So road transport uses about 1.5 times as much energy as the national grid presently supplies.

So a massive conversion of road transport to electricity would need increasing the generating capacity across the UK to 2.5 times what it is at present. On top of that, the existing grid would also need to be upgraded in proportion to carry all that extra juice.

When people talk of electric vehicles etc. they forget or ignore or are just plain ignorant of that fact.

*used to have a link for that but it doesn't work any more. Numbers from an old post here.

[bert]

And on a calm night?

[tim...]

The EU won't allow them to restrict moment of foreigner through their country which is on major trans-Europe routes

I doubt that there will be affordable products available even by then, for it to be enforced.

But looking likely

tim

[tim...]

Most people in Europe frequently cross borders.

Suggesting that the Dutch only need the range to reach Dutch locations is silly

tim

[tim...]

what, at any price

or is price still a barrier for you

tim

[tim...]

Though somewhat less efficiently so you can perhaps knock 20% off your number (not that it makes it much easier)

tim

[tim...]

As I have pointed out to various people several times, that would require a complete change in house building policy to work

This preference of developers to build estate with communal parking (to get better land utilisation), and for people to convert their integral garages into living rooms would have to stop.

all houses would have to be supplied with a proper garage and planning rules would have to forbid conversion, otherwise people wont have the facilities to charge up at home - Charging up on the street, unguarded, overnight just isn't going to work.

tim

[NY]

And we'd have to get used to changing how we use our cars, because we could never venture further away from home (or some other place which has a charging point and where we intend to spend the night) than range of the car will allow. No more driving a couple of hundred miles in a day when going to/from holiday or going to see relatives.

And you could only visit people who had a charging point. Do electric cars generally require specialised hardware at the charging point or can that hardware be made portable so it can be taken with you and plugged into any three-pin socket?

[charles]

Communal car parks with charging points would work fine. They already exist in parts of Norway/Sweden to provide power for engine heaters. There is no basic reason why roadside parking meters could be conveted into power outlets. There's the underlying infrastructure, of course, but it could be done.

[The Natural Philosopher]

for decent charge rates - e.g, a 1 hour charge on a 50Kwh battery you need some hefty infrastructure.

Not saying its not possible, over a period of time, but its not cheap and it isn't that simple.

Will rollout similar to broadband I'd say - 20 years or so.

I think that with nuclear power we are on the cusp. 1 hour fast charge means that you can use e.g supermarkets equipped with power points.

If we could get a real 100 mile range and fast charge - under an hour - then its not ideal, but a lot of people would say that that is an acceptable performance for the vast majority of urban/suburban trips which are indeed school run supermarket etc.

Of course it would have to be cost effective too. And the loss of tax income from falling fuel sales would be a problem.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I'd not hold my breath. Since the very first electric car well over 100 years ago, the quest has been on for better batteries. As it is for virtually every type of portable electric device. The chances of some breakthrough that will provide what you want at a affordable price, remote.

[tim...]

left unguarded overnight

expect to come back to find your car unplugged and the battery still flat (as the simple case)

tim

[Robin]

Yes, I'd really like to see details - including costings - for safe and secure[1] on-street charging on inner city streets. Might be worth taking Islington as a test case: seems to me if assorted party leaders and MPs can't charge their cars safely and securely...

[1] eg many seem to me to be serious trip hazards: