[OT] Grenfell Tower - Officials

[Graeme]

Like most of the country, I have been following the news, and watching in amazement and exasperation as Theresa follows f*ck up with f*ck up, whilst Jeremy seemingly enhances his reputation and consolidates his position as Everyman. Even Dave would have been there, high profile, Sam at his side.

Headlines today. The area is crawling with volunteers, but not an official to be seen.

Yesterday. Tons of donated supplies in the town hall, yet the doors locked and not an official to be seen. Weekend innit mate.

WTF is wrong with Theresa? She seems to have been committing political suicide ever since the dementia tax before the election. Why can these people not realise that, short term, it is not doing that is important, but being seen to be doing. Something. Anything. Why has Theresa not been screaming at every public servant in the land? Be there. Be seen. Be high profile.

Up here, it would be 'nae ma job, pal'.

Current BBC front page headline : Government team to bolster relief effort. Well, yes, but only Monday to Friday, 9-5 apparently.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Yes - I was talking to a resident of the area yesterday who went to volunteer the day before on a day off and couldn't find anyone who could make use of any help he could give. Being youngish and fit, he could have helped move things around - but seems there were already plenty who could do that.

Heard on the radio that council officials had been told to stay home. Something about the Red Cross getting involved. The sort of thing you expect in a third world country - not one of the richest cities in the world.

Perhaps she can't do anything without her advisors. Hope that was a joke.

[Graeme]

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)" writes

Theresa seems to have poor advisors or poor judgement. Or both.

I was in favour of Theresa during the last leadership affair (Anyone but Gove!), and she seemed to start strongly, but things have gone badly wrong since then. Not good odds on her rebuilding her reputation and becoming the leader this country needs, now.

[Huge]

[32 lines snipped]

There's a certain delicious irony in the fact that the organisation you're slagging off allowed you to retire at an age that most people can only dream of.

[Huge]

13/8 at Paddy Power on another General Election this year ...

[Graeme]

In message , jim writes

Jim, as a tory voter, I was trying not to make a political point. As to who should be there, and what they should be doing, that rather misses the point. Given the situation, and recent headlines from all sides of the political divide, the local council should have had staff there, high profile, even if they only muttered platitudes and handed out tea and sarnies to the volunteers or anyone else in need. It is not doing as such that is important, but being seen to be there. I'm not suggesting it is right or proper, or even useful, just the climate today, and anyone in politics today should know that. The world went to hell in a handcart after that dozy princess's death, but that is another story.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Same too - on the basis of the speech she made just after becoming PM. Thought a one nation Tory again at last. But with hindsight, perhaps that was written by her advisors for publicity only, as in about a year of being in charge she did precisely nothing that was promised in it. And then the manifesto goes straight back to Tory principles of cutting back spending on the poorest first.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

These tenants are not the holders of the insurance. So cannot claim directly on it.

Some may not have had a bank account - and may have lost their phone.

[Richard]

Paraphrase of Trump's "America first, America first". Good call, Theresa.

[dennis]

The tenants should have household insurance even if they don't have buildings insurance. That would cover temporary housing, etc. and the insurance companies would be there to help.

Its the ones that don't have insurance that need help from the council and those that have suffered injury/lose.

Anyway I think you will find that the big problem is too many helpers and nobody knew who had gone where. There were/are people with friends neighbours, strangers and someone has to find them before any official help can happen. Some of them may not want to be found.

[Roland Perry]

In message , at

16:50:50 on Sun, 18 Jun 2017, "dennis@home" remarked:

I've read that only about 1:20 such residents would be expected to have any insurance.

And perhaps those helpers hadn't been on the same training exercises as professional helpers, and so managed to Balkanise (fragment) the situation badly. The police kept on asking locals to report potential missing persons to them, and perhaps should have said "and us alone".

And some were at work, and perhaps weekly commuters too.

How many were sublet (despite it probably being against the rules).

And it does seem unlikely that there weren't a few people in the building whose visas had expired - not a political point, but just by the law of averages.

[Dave Liquorice]

Try looking for a "Contingency Plan" for Kensington, I couldn't find one.

Under the Civil Contingencies Act 2004 local authorities have a statutory duty to have contingency plans to ensure the authority has the resources and staff to deal with a crisis situation effectively.

Other neighbouring boroughs have one, they aren't detailed but have command and control structure (normal Gold, Silver, Bronze), a few levels of emergency, with call out procedures (office hours and out of office hours), who should do what etc

Strikes me Kensington didn't have a plan that was worth the paper it was printed on. You don't plan for a given scenerio, just various scale incidents based on area affected numberof people affected etc.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Wonder if you've ever claimed for anything on insurance? I've no idea if such a policy exists. Or whether it would be common for someone in council accommodation to be able to afford it. Normally, in event of a fire and a flat being destroyed, the council would provide temporary accommodation.

IMHO, the only time an insurance company acts quickly is in TV ads.

Which is why there should have been people to organise the volunteers.

Hence having a central register where you could talk face to face with someone who has the basic details, and updates those as data comes in - hardly rocket science.

Wondered when you'd come out with something like that.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Quite. It surely doesn't take too much imagination to think this sort of thing could happen.

Indeed - and some are now helping K&C by putting their own plan in action there. But this isn't as easy as in their own borough.

Perhaps K&C have cut their staff to the point where only the day to day running of things can be done.

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 07:28:19 on Mon, 19 Jun

2017, Jim GM4DHJ ... remarked:

There is a parallel with the Fire Service, where I've heard people asking out loud why we need to employ so many people to stand around all day playing table-tennis. One solution to that being to move the table tennis table away from the window overlooking the road!

However, the residents of north Kensington do appear to expect the council to have a spare team of social workers awaiting the call to action in circumstances such as this. I had always thought this was something more likely to be the province of various national charities.

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

have to say all the fires I have attended have had loads of fire men standing about doing nothing .... then there were the fire chiefs attending in their brand new flashy cars while I attend in my hyundai stellar..tee hee

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 08:05:49 on Mon, 19 Jun

2017, Jim GM4DHJ ... remarked:

One of the reasons for that is health and safety, were aiui each crew has to be made of a minimum[1] of five firemen, and if to pumps are send initially then that's ten already. Quite often two of them manage to put the fire out quite quickly (which is good!) but they tend to hang around to make sure it's all OK.

[1] If there are only four firefighters are available, which I'm told has been known to happen with some voluntary crews, they are simply not allowed to attend the fire.

[dennis]

Maybe the staff were to scared to turn up?

[dennis]

Well that can't be true as we have some engines that only have three. and can only carry four as a maximum.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Our fire men can be seen riding tractors and mending fences all day.

They are voluntary: They have to be within 5 mins drive of the fire station on pagers.