[OT] Grenfell Tower - Officials

They were the backbone of assistance during the worst of the blitz in WW2.

And the public didn't carry out any mob riots on the town hall either.

Reply to
Andrew
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They had nobody to organise them, mobilise them, print their signs, etc back then unlike this time.

Reply to
JoeJoe

Its not a wind up, some of the staff do really take their sick days as entitlement the same as some civil servants do.

Reply to
dennis

I wasn't going to bother answering him... I have several friends who work for the NHS, and according to them it is a common practice there amongst the lower paid workers (nurses are actually paid pretty well).

Reply to
JoeJoe

Its usually best to park them nearer to a road. Preferably one that isn't choked up with traffic like the one outside the nearest fire station.

Just imagine how much better it would have been if a fire engine had been parked closer to that tower block rather than in a fire station miles away. If a typical fire station houses say three engines then they can put two of them elsewhere and get better coverage and its only at the expense of the firemen missing the TV.

I take it you don't like solutions that are known to work.

Reply to
dennis

Not that well - especially as in recent years the NHS has had a "policy" of employing band 5 staff into band 6 positions, while still retaining all the same responsibilities and just tweaking the contract wording a little.

On top of that unpaid overtime rapidly cuts the effective rate. For example, my wife is a community psychiatric nurse and if she was due to finish at 5pm, but received an urgent call to a patient and couldn't leave 'til 9pm, she could receive overtime or time in lieu.

If however she had no patients booked for the afternoon, in order to write up her notes from patients she had seen the day before and that morning, but received an urgent call that took that time away from her, she couldn't leave the notes as they are a legal requirement, but staying late to do them would generate no overtime or time in lieu.

SteveW

Reply to
Steve Walker

Only the most stupid would compare wartime bombing to a fire in a tower block. Do you work for the Express? But then they'd probably agree it is the job of a charity to help out one of the richest boroughs in the land.

Riot is another word you apparently don't know the meaning of.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

sitting

Naw just a townie.

North Kensington fire station is 1.2 miles away from Grenfell Tower. Hammersmith 1.8 miles, Kensington 2.2 miles, Paddington 2.3 miles. Google maps fastest road route from published LFB station postcodes to Grenfell Tower. OK more than one mile, just, but not really "miles away", see below for real miles away.

The first engine was there 6 minutes after the call and it now transpires that the original fridge fire had been extinguished and the crews where packing up when fire was seen on the outside of the building.

They do but the fire fighters don't get to miss their telly.

There is only one engine in the nearest fire station (2.5 miles away) and the crew is sat at home watching TV. The next nearest station is

18.6 miles, 41 minutes away. Next 22 miles, 40 min. Both these are single engines and have their crews at home watching TV. The first station with *some* regular fire fighters and more than one engine is 22.1 miles, 39 mins. The nearest full time station is 30.2 miles and 51 minutes away.

You really don't want your house to catch fire around here. For us only 2.5 miles from the station it'll be ten minutes or so from the call before the local pump arrives, time enoough for the fire to have got a good hold if not "well alight". The 1000 gallons or so of water on board doesn't last long even with just a hose reel in use. No hydrants, the river is 300' lower and the best part of a mile away. There is a wash out in the "new" water main about 300 yds away, they

*might* have enough suction and delivery hose to park the pump somewhere between. Always assuming they are allowed to use a wash out as a water source for a main jet ticking over at a mere 100 or so gallons per minute.

Needless to say houses have more or less burnt down around here in the past.

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

Not many 28 story flats there then?

Low density housing needs sprinklers more than towns do as you can't really expect permanent fire cover.

As a minimum smoke alarms, insurance and a fireproof safe for your sentimental items.

Maybe you need a swimming pool and a big pump and hose?

Reply to
dennis

In message , at

20:39:39 on Mon, 19 Jun 2017, "dennis@home" remarked:

It's 0.6mile as the crow flies, 0.9mile by road due to the spaghetti road layout near the tower.

Reply to
Roland Perry

The unofficial resident's committee complained to the council about a proposed development which would make fire engine access to the tower very much more difficult - now via a narrow road often heavily parked. But were ignored.

However, there is no evidence (yet) that the time the service took to arrive had any influence on the outcome. And since they put out the original fire quickly, they did what was expected.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Naw - just plain daft.

Imagine a fire engine and crew parked up on a street somewhere complete with crew just waiting to be told where actually needed. Full of all the debris from the crew eating in it etc. A fire hazard in itself. Batteries flat through going nowhere until needed. Or run out of fuel on a cold day as the engine was left idling to keep things warm.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

In message , at 10:08:59 on Tue, 20 Jun

2017, "Dave Plowman (News)" remarked:

Given that the organisation which runs the block had a majority of residents on the board, plus a least one left-wing professional (now the famous three-recounts MP), it makes one wonder why they also need an unofficial association.

Reply to
Roland Perry

Dave Plowman (News) pretended :

A bit unlikely, they would use what lorry drivers call a 'night heater', a boiler which burns diesel to heat the cab up and keep the engine warm too.

Reply to
Harry Bloomfield

So blocking the cycle super highways and bus lanes.

My nearest fire station exit point is a roundabout, they could just keep going around that I suppose.

Just suppose that it had been closer to central London waiting for a terrorist attack or to protect a building from fire which was more expensive to replace.

If it has 3 engines then they are for teh local area not teh other sode of London, that's the point of having local fire stations.

Engones also need top be maintained refited, and what iof you want a piss or shit you go in the water tank or Knock on someones door to ask to use the toilet. Then what happens during lunchtime ?

Next to the local old peoples home they have a graveyard. Years ago there was a medical centre and next door an undertakers. Hurrey & Sons IIRC.

Reply to
whisky-dave

Did you read the qualifications needed to be a 'resident' member of that board I posted?

But you've probably answered your own question. A 'residents of that block' organization may well have been formed because the official one wasn't doing what they thought was needed.

Of course it's all speculation and 'he said she said' type of thing. Except for the inescapable view that loss of life on this scale was preventable. And not at considerable cost, either.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Ah - forgot. That appliance and crew would have to be there all night too.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

And they then go out of area in event of a big fire, like this one. As anyone who watched TV would have seen.

Denise would have had them all parked up waiting on the forecourt. His crystal ball told him this would happen, when and where.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

And just what do you think the engine runs on?

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

And some times a *long* way out of area. With 40 appliances plus other support and specialist vehicles in attendance at Grenfell I wonder from how far a field other appliances were moved to maintian basic cover to the wider area? And if any thing was moved to fill the holes that those movements created.

If our engine is involved in an incident that will take more than a few hours to resolve along with sending other engines to that incident they also send in an engine to provide cover to the area.

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

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