10 cheapest BEST cities to live.... and to run a mfr'g bidniss??

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The first listing, Sandusky, Ohio, gives the articles sources.

Michigan, Ohio, Indiana seem to dominate -- haven't checked the geography, but mebbe all close to mfr'g towns? Elkhart, Indiana f'sure. But Cumberland, Md-W. Va (not dat far from me) was a bit of a surprise -- altho anything with W. Va. could explain "cheap".

I thought Tennessee might be in there (TVA), and KY, but apparently lots of retirees are flocking there, running up prices. And with smaller mosquitoes than in Florida....

Note the relatively high crime rate in Fairbanks, about 6x Elkhart, Ind. Most in the middle.

And the other Q is, Are these place also good for a bidniss?? Food fer thought.

Reply to
Existential Angst
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Until the right wingnut hacks got a hold of this counrty. Now the US of A will never be the same.

Pitty.

Reply to
Allen Drake

That's what you get for electing a borderline mentally handicapped person (George Bush) for your president. Twice no less.

When you go off invading countries countries in the middle east and call it a "war" and spend trillions of dollars on foolhardy escapades like that, you get a country in pitty-full shape.

Bush's strategery worked out real well, as did Rumsfeld's known unknowns and Cheney's secret energy meetings.

How did Bush's push for increased home-ownership rates pan out?

Reply to
Home Guy

You need to get out of the house and into some fresh air, with more oxygen.

Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

These surveys never make any sense because they can never apply their research to the interests of everyone. If what makes you happy, be it the music scene, cultural scene, dance, work, or community of folks with a common interest etc... can only be had in a less than "optimal" place, then that is paradise to you. There are just way too many factors to weigh for people that have interests outside of just going to work and coming home for 30 years, raising kids, then dying. If you have any life at all outside that, then these surveys are meaningless because they only consider one or two economic factors. If you truly loved bowling would you want to live somewhere with no bowling alley for 50 miles no matter how great a bargain the local economy is?

Reply to
RickH

These surveys never make any sense because they can never apply their research to the interests of everyone. If what makes you happy, be it the music scene, cultural scene, dance, work, or community of folks with a common interest etc... can only be had in a less than "optimal" place, then that is paradise to you. There are just way too many factors to weigh for people that have interests outside of just going to work and coming home for 30 years, raising kids, then dying. If you have any life at all outside that, then these surveys are meaningless because they only consider one or two economic factors. If you truly loved bowling would you want to live somewhere with no bowling alley for 50 miles no matter how great a bargain the local economy is? =================================================

Well, these were all sizable cities, so bowling shouldn't be a problem. :)

Sure, an individual has to sleuth specifics, but cheap, low crime, good schools is a good basic beginning. Makes more sense to me than NYeffingCity, where a 500 sq ft studio costs $500,000, just to be cool, and near Robert fuknDeNiro.

Reply to
Existential Angst

Bush never pushed for greater home ownership rates. You're thinking of the Community Reinvestment Act, originally passed under the Carter administration and greatly expanded in 1995 under Clinton.

This act, and its implementation, was the single greatest cause of the housing crisis.

Reply to
HeyBub

Did it ever occur to anyone on this newsgroup that there are a LOT of places outside of the US that aregood places to live? Places where you don't have crackheads and gangs hanging on every corner. The place is stuffed. get out of it and join the real world. Half your population dont vote and you get the politicians you deserve as a result. Go to the polls and turf them out if you don't like them. Don't waste bandwidth whining about it on a newsgroup dedicated to metalworking,

Reply to
Grumpy

You will never learn of nice places around the world. The USA is all about hate and lies that will always make it seem like the world revolves around America and every place else is meaningless. Americans are the greatest race of people on the planet. The right is in the process of saving the universe from the left wing socialist commie pot smoking baby killing Godless outcasts and Bush was the greatest leader the world has ever known. I wonder who can ever fill his shoes. Maybe Cain or Perry or Romney or Palin or any of the rest of those clueless wing nuts can manage to funnel the rest of the money to the top 2%.

Reply to
Allen Drake

Why do you lie?

============ Bush seeks to increase minority homeownership

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Posted 1/20/2004 1:31 AM Bush seeks to increase minority homeownership By Thomas A. Fogarty, USA TODAY

In a bid to boost minority homeownership, President Bush will ask Congress for authority to eliminate the down-payment requirement for Federal Housing Administration loans. ============

YouTube - Home Ownership and President Bush

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Reply to
Home Guy

Totally wrong. The act and its implementation was that people who would normally qualify for mortgages could not be denied a mortgage just because they lived in a redlined area, being an area that a lender had arbitrarily decided that they would automatically refuse. lenders still had to verify that the loan where economically valid.

Reply to
Jack Rabbit

See also:

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Reply to
Home Guy

Allen Drake wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Actually,the "progessives" are the ones who have ruined America. The more socialism they enacted and implemented,the worse America became. You can see it in the "education" field the best. Kids "graduating" are dumber than they've ever been.

Reply to
Jim Yanik

Allen Drake wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

"the US is all about hate and lies",yet we are the ones who are FIRST with aid and assistance when disasters strike,who ensured Europe's freedom for more than 60 years,we promote human rights worldwide,plus America has made life better for many people around the world through medical advances,weather and tsunami warnings,higher food production techniques,etc.

You simply are clueless,or brainwashed by the "progressives" "education"/indoctrination system.Or both.

Reply to
Jim Yanik

Only if there's crude oil at stake somewhere nearby

Only to keep europe out of the orbit of the soviet union.

Tell that to Africa.

And why does China have most-favored-nation status when it comes to trade with the US? Why do you look the other way when it comes to human rights when dealing with china?

Yes. Monsanto and ADM just love to sell poor coutries high-yield genetically modified plants, and the specially patented insecticides and herbicides to go along with them.

You're the one that's been effectively brainwashed.

Reply to
Home Guy

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With much of southern Iraq in the hands of coalition forces by the weekend after the opening of hostilities, reporters naturally started asking where the weapons were: "Bush administration officials were peppered yesterday with questions about why allied forces in Iraq have not found any of the chemical or biological weapons that were President Bush's central justification for forcibly disarming Iraqi President Saddam Hussein's government," the Washington Post reported (3/23/03).

Miraculously, the answer seemed to come that Sunday night (3/23/03), when military officials told the media of a "chemical facility" found in the southern town of Najaf. "Bob, as you know, there's a lot of talk right now about a chemical cache that has been found at a chemical facility," MSNBC anchor Forrest Sawyer told White House correspondent Bob Kur. "I underscore, we do not know what the chemicals are, but it sure has gotten spread around fast."

It sure had. Over on Fox News Channel (3/23/03), the headline banners were already rolling: "HUGE CHEMICAL WEAPONS FACTORY FOUND IN SO IRAQ.... REPORTS: 30 IRAQIS SURRENDER AT CHEM WEAPONS PLANT.... COAL TROOPS HOLDING IRAQI IN CHARGE OF CHEM WEAPONS." The Jerusalem Post, whose embedded reporter helped break the story along with a Fox correspondent, announced in a front-page headline (3/24/03), "U.S. Troops Capture First Chemical Plant."

The next day (10/24/03), a Fox correspondent in Qatar quietly issued an update to the story: The "chemical weapons facility discovered by coalition forces did not appear to be an active chemical weapons facility." Further testing was required. In fact, U.S. officials had admitted that morning that the site contained no chemicals at all and had been abandoned long ago (Dow Jones wire, 3/24/03).

So went the weapons hunt. On numerous occasions, the discovery of a stash of illegal Iraqi arms was loudly announced--often accompanied by an orgy of triumphalist off-the-cuff punditry--only to be deflated inconspicuously, and in a lower tone of voice, until the next false alarm was sounded. In one episode, embedded NPR reporter John Burnett (4/7/03) recounted the big news he'd learned from a "top military official": "the first solid confirmed existence of chemical weapons by the Iraqi army." According to Burnett, an army unit near Baghdad had discovered "20 BM-21 medium-range rockets with warheads containing sarin nerve gas and mustard gas."

When NPR Morning Edition anchor Susan Stamberg asked Burnett, "So this is really a major discovery, isn't it?" he assented: "If it turns out to be true, the commander told us this morning this would be a smoking gun. This would vindicate the administration's claims that the Iraqis had chemicals all along." Of course, it turned out not to be true. A Pentagon official, Maj. Gen. Stanley McChrystal, told reporters the next day (4/8/03) that he had "seen nothing in official reports that would corroborate that."

On April 26, ABC World News Tonight blared an "exclusive" report: "U.S. troops discover chemical agents, missiles and what could be a mobile laboratory in Iraq." Correspondent David Wright explained that the Army soldiers had found "14 55-gallon drums, at least a dozen missiles and

150 gas masks" testing positive for chemical weapons, including a nerve agent and a blistering agent. He added that an Army lieutenant "says the tests have an accuracy of 98 percent."

Perhaps somewhat self-consciously, ABC followed Wright's report with a short segment about previous weapons claims that turned out to be false alarms. But the network continued to pump the story the next day, with anchor Carole Simpson introducing it as the lead segment on World News Sunday (4/27/03): "For the second day in a row, some of the preliminary tests have come back positive for chemical agents."

But when the U.S. Mobile Exploration Team (MET Bravo) arrived on the scene to conduct its own tests, it "tentatively concluded that there are no chemical weapons at a site where American troops said they had found chemical agents and mobile labs," the New York Times reported the next day (4/28/03). A member of the team told the Times simply: "The earlier reports were wrong."

-------------- lots more stuff here

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Centerpiece or hot air?

Having suffered a series of public humiliations from the conspicuous absence of unconventional weapons, the administration made it known that it was pinning its hopes on two trailers found in northern Iraq, which they termed mobile biological weapons labs. On May 12, NBC News correspondent Jim Avila, reporting from Baghdad, declared that the labs "may be the most significant WMD findings of the war." Joining him was hawkish former U.N. nuclear inspector David Kay (now an "NBC News analyst"), who was flown to Iraq to perform an impromptu inspection for the cameras. Armed with a pointer, he rattled off the trailer 's parts: "This is a compressor. You want to keep the fermentation process under pressure so it goes faster. This vessel is the fermenter...." In his report, Avila didn't explain how and why Kay and the NBC crew obtained access to the trailers while the legally mandated U.N. inspection team, UNMOVIC, had been barred from looking at them.

The trailers quickly became the "centerpiece" (New York Times, 5/21/03) of the administration's argument that Iraq was indeed hiding a biowarfare program, and Bush himself used them to proclaim (5/31/03) that "for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong. We found them." No actual biological agents were found on the trucks, though; nor were any ingredients for biological weapons. In fact, no direct evidence linked the trailers to biological production at all.

U.S. officials said the trailers' equipment was capable of making such agents. Even then, the unconcentrated slurry that resulted could not have been put into a weapon: "Other units that we have not yet found would be needed to prepare and sterilize the media and to concentrate and possibly dry the agent, before the agent is ready for introduction into a delivery system," the CIA's report admitted (5/28/03).

Iraqi scientists who worked at the institute where one of the trailers was found offered a different explanation: They told interrogators that the labs were used to produce hydrogen for military weather balloons. "Even while conceding that the equipment could, in fact, have been used occasionally to make hydrogen" (New York Times, 5/21/03), the CIA report dismissed that explanation, reasoning that such a production technique "would be inefficient." (Yet the weapon-making technique imputed to the trailers was also "inefficient," an intelligence official admitted--New York Times, 5/29/03.) In fact, a technical analysis alone, they said, "would not lead you intuitively and logically to biological warfare" (New York Times, 5/29/03).

On the other hand, the trailer's equipment "appeared to contain traces of aluminum, a metal that can be used to create hydrogen." Yet that was discounted by U.S. officials, who said the aluminum "might have been planted by Iraqis to create the illusion that the units had made gas for weather balloons" (New York Times, 5/21/03).

A few weeks later, a front-page New York Times article by Judith Miller and William Broad (6/7/03) quoted senior intelligence analysts who doubted the trailers were used for biological weapons. "I have no great confidence that it's a fermenter," one WMD specialist said of a key piece of equipment on the trailer. (In his TV performance on NBC, David Kay had evinced total confidence that it was.) The CIA report, he said, "was a rushed job and looks political."

Analysts noted that the trailers "lacked gear for steam sterilization, normally a prerequisite for any kind of biological production." "That's a huge minus," said a U.S. government biological expert who had been quoted in an earlier Judith Miller article endorsing the administration's theory. "I don't see how you can clean those tanks chemically." A senior administration official was quoted admitting that "some analysts give the hydrogen claim more credence."

It's worth noting that in the 1980s, the British defense contractor Marconi received a government-backed loan to sell the Iraqi army an Artillery Meteorological System, an artillery radar system that uses weather balloons to track wind patterns (London Guardian, 2/28/03).

Reply to
Home Guy

Do you do any metalworking, or do you just whine al the time? All I've seen is that you have a bad case of PMS.

Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

Capitulation accepted.

Reply to
Allen Drake

Congratulations! Your DIY lobotomy with a rusty pocket knife was

100% a success.
Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

Grow a brain winger.

Reply to
Allen Drake

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