OT Apprentice wages

[Vir Campestris]

..and since an 18yo can't (legally) drink in the US she'll stay (fairly) sober and do some work :)

[bert]

Back in the days of "free" university education, parents were expected to contribute towards living costs by a means tested grant. Many refused. They also paid, as did graduates, through a basic rate of tax of around 30% which is probably well above the marginal tax rate of someone repaying a student loan today. Also of course only about 2.5% of young people actually had the opportunity to go to a university.

What irks me a bout the Student Loan system is HMRC website which proclaims that you never pay tax on a student loan. Oh yes you do, when you repay it, just like any other loan because the repayment is taken out of income after tax has been deducted.

[GMM]

Absolutely correct. Our lad's at Manchester and his rent is a little bit more than his loan provides, and not for anything palatial. This is actually considerably cheaper than university accommodation, which is invariably run as a business now rather than a service. He could, of course, get a job but with 100,000 students within 5 miles, they're not exactly easy to come by, although he has picked up a few little short-term earners. So guess who has to pay?

Is it worth it? Only time will tell but these days even a good degree in something worthwhile is no guarantee of even a shot at a decent job, in the way it was once, more a baseline qualification.

While the high cost of HE might be expected to motivate students, it seems largely to have the opposite effect. They now consider that all this money has bought them a degree, so they shouldn't have to do any work for it.

Probably the worst aspect of current higher education though was the conversion of polytechnics, where some very good courses were once run, into 'new' universities, whereupon they dropped a lot of their best offers in favour of soft options. I'm sure nobody intended that, but it's a predicatable consequence of making it a market, given the fickle consumer base.

[bert]

In message , Tim Watts writes

One of the best technical courses was/is the HND. These should have been turned into technical degrees. If you want to work on the global stage you really need to have a "degree" because you are competing with people from other countries who have them. The employer isn't interested in arguments about "real " degrees or whether our universities are better than their universities. Speaking as someone with experience in international recruitment.

[bert]

The sponsorship has gone because much of the industry has gone.

[Bob Eager]

I agree, but in the latter case heating and lighting are usually included.

Depends on the degree, though. We have had 100% employment on graduation (within the statutory 6 months) for at least the last two years, for our mainstream degrees in computer science. Rated 5th in the country now.

Yes, there is more of that these days.

Hear hear.

[bert]

In message , Arfa Daily writes

[Bob Eager]

Mine did. I was not on good terms with them anyway. I worked every weekend and all of the vacations (includsing Christmas Day) and still graduated with debt.

Yes, two 'two bites' scenario is far too common these days.

[bert]

In message , Arfa Daily writes

But they're old enough to vote.

[polygonum]

Isn't the amount of tax you pay the same whether that income is used to repay a loan or for any other purpose? I think I must be missing how that is a tax on the loan rather than the income - which is what most of us pay.

[Bob Eager]

Still exists. We (computing) take selected students with HNC into our second year, but not HNDs into the final year.

My wife has been involved in getting HNDs started at her FE college....but I am taking at least one HNC student onto the degree course next year.

[Tim Watts]

On Thursday 04 July 2013 22:11 Vir Campestris wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Indeed - I was careful to quote the cheapest rooms. I don't think the pricelist I got £90 from were ensuite as ensuite were listed separately and more expensive.

It's the conferences. They want nice rooms to let out over summer and easter. They can then charge the students more because they are nice.

I was in Wentworh C block (aptly labelled "WC"). We have a fridge and 2 x 2 ring Baby Bellings between 17 people. And we did have 13A sockets - unlike Wentworth A+B blocks who have 2A round pin off the lighting and spent their entire time asking the porter to reset the breakers.

Do you remember the unpainted concrete block corridors in some places?

Wentworth Bar is now a multi faith prayer room...

[Vir Campestris]

:) Goodricke C block was painted breeze blocks throughout. I don't rememberany unpainted ones

Well,never mind, there's another bar or size somewhere else. Though I gather I couldn't even find Goodricke now, it's escaped! (to Hes West)

Andy

[Vir Campestris]

:) Goodricke C block was painted breeze blocks throughout. I don't rememberany unpainted ones

Well,never mind, there's another bar or six somewhere else. Though I gather I couldn't even find Goodricke now, it's escaped! (to Hes West)

Andy

[Huge]

Actually, no. Apparently, the students want decent facilities now.

[Bob Eager]

One big change is the massive growth in demand for self catering facilities. Used to be that everyone wanted to eat in 'dining halls' and not cook for themselves. That has changed dramatically and now it's hard to get students to take rooms that don't have a fully equipped kitchen nearby.

[whisky-dave]

I don't think that is the reason, accomedation is expensive in London for e veryone. As the college where I work have installed cafe after cafe for the students at what I see a inflated prices, we have scape living have built a complex for students why because we charge too much.

studios flats £220PW !!!!! well I think that's lot.

I work here I can;t fully justify the prices they charge, even at the stud ents union. Budgens, sainsbury the co-op have all opened up local stores ne ar us selling sandwiches. I used to spend an average of £6 for a round of sandwiches drink etc.. not I get pretty much the same for under £4.

2 years ago I asked teh student union why they charge £1.35 for an oasis drink while the local supermarkets charge 99p. Teh couldn;t comment other than saying the students union is subserdised %-0

[Tim Watts]

On Friday 05 July 2013 15:45 Huge wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Who are these students? Most I know would have preferred cheap but sanitary and warm and close (unlike much of the private student housing).

Unless you mean the few rich and the foreign students (who are often well off). I think everyone would like a nice room, but given a choice of £45pw and £90pw, pragmatism would come into play fairly quickly.

No problem with mixed grade accomodation, but leave a suitable number of cheap "prison cells" in place...

[Tim Watts]

On Friday 05 July 2013 16:06 Bob Eager wrote in uk.d-i-y:

SC was popular in my day too. We often ate in college for convenience (and it was cheap and sociable) but the option to cook was regularly exercised by some and many more at the weekends (especially if "Open College" was the one with the crap food!).

We did Xmas dinner for 20 people using 2 kitchens (so 2 baby belling ovens including 4 rings) on a floor once (with the kind permission of the other cooridor's inhabitents. And noone died :)

[Bob Eager]

Maybe, but adding cooking facilities etc. is bound to increase rents even if all else remains the same.