Mac Disaster

[Doctor Drivel]

I would not cal, Wickes a DIY outlet. Most trade is to the trade.

[Doctor Drivel]

They sell because they give credit to anyone.

Kress were a common brand until their distributor went belly up. They appear to be content with Wickes.

[Andy Hall]

I'm sure that there are more people who go out and buy products on price without considering anything else. One sees them lined up at the returns counter in B&Q with their products, 2 days out of warranty and being told that there are no service and spares arrangements. Reactions range from anger to incredulity after they learn that the level of service that they had assumed would be there simply isn't and they need to buy again. Now, all of a sudden, the £60 super-special that seemed such a good deal compared with the proper product at £100 doesn't seem like such a good deal - especially with the time wasted in extra trips.

People should look at all the aspects before buying things, whatever they are and they are for. Doing otherwise is making an uninformed purchase and there is fairly high probability of disappointment for one reason or another.

The main point is the assumption that is being made here that because something is "only for DIY" that any old rubbish will do and that price is everything because of low usage. That is as wrong as suggesting that everybody needs high end tools for every job (which, incidentally I haven't said).

Unless all of the aspects are considered, it isn't possible to make an informed decision.

Joining of a kitchen worktop well and accurately is one of the obvious reasons to buy a good quality router and bits as opposed to a junk one.

That would be excusable if the tool were used *beyond* its capability, but at way below capability is an indicator of faulty design and manufacture.

[Andy Hall]

It's neither one thing nor the other. It attempts to be a DIY outlet but has a poor selection of products. It attempts to be a trade outlet but doesn't have the range and quality available in trade outlets. Paints, electrical fittings, wood and construction materials are obvious examples.

The only reason I go there is if on a Sunday I need some individual item that they may have like a paintbrush or perhaps a bag of aggregate. I don't think I've ever spent more than £30 on a visit to Wickes.

[Andy Hall]

Based on what they have in other countries, I suspect that they don't have a choice.

In France they have a subsidiary. In pretty much every other European country they sell through tool distributors with the Kress brand.

Even in a small market such as Austria there are several distributors.

This points either to not having the resources to develop their brand in the UK market, or more likely that there is an agreement with Wickes that Kress will not sell their branded tools in the UK. This may or may not have some volume commitments.

Either way, it is not consistent with their modus operandi elsewhere.

[dennis]

Well that isn't true.. I took a tool back two weeks ago.. The switch had stopped working.. I didn't have a receipt and I said I couldn't remember when I bought it (both true but I knew it was over a year). They said I could have a credit note and just go and buy a new one if I wanted. No more than 60 seconds including printing the note.

[:Jerry:]

...and why the hell should they be doing that if their product has a clear market position!

[:Jerry:]

Oh and DeWalt went from 0 to 100.000.000 over night?

You really are so far up your own arse that I'm surprised that you know if it's day or night!...

Most of what Snap-on sell in the UK are commodity products, they only survive due to brand loyalty - much the same as DeWalt in fact!

[Doctor Drivel]

When my outlaw used a PP drill as a hammer, we took it back. "Pick another off the shelf sir". Delighted, a brand newy again.

Some tools require accuracy whether DIY or not. An average drill needs to dill in wood or brick and accuracy is not a big thing. For occasional use the average DIY drill is fine. In fact a mains drill for £10-15 is brilliant, no batteries to worry about fading altogether.

[Doctor Drivel]

I said "Most trade is to the trade." Wickes stores are full of white vans in the car park.

That is true. They prodduct range is geared towards the building trade. They are competitive in price on most things.

Nonsense. Their electrical and plumbing ranges are good quality overall. Their power tool ranges is second to none covering all type from DIY to full pro.

[Andy Hall]

I have seen precisely the situation that I described, so it is true.

Did they offer spares and service?

For you, they were feeling magnanimous and gave you the benefit of the doubt, probably knowing when the product was first introduced.

BTW, I wouldn't have accepted the 2 days out of warranty line anyway, based on the Sale of Goods Act. Reasonableness would suggest 2 years on a cheap tool unless it really is the very lowest of the low. However most customers are either unaware of or won't argue the point.

In general B&Q do have a fair returns policy, I agree, but it's not always offered without asking or pushing.

[Doctor Drivel]

More this "or more likely that there is an agreement with Wickes that Kress will not sell their branded tools in the UK." Nevertheless Kress is a quality brand at competitive prices no matter what name is on the side.

[Doctor Drivel]

They stand by their product.

Right.

Very right.

[Doctor Drivel]

Do a Goggle on this group and the compliments on the Wickes/Kress SDS drill on here are many.

[Andy Hall]

No they aren't. I drove past one the other morning fairly early in the morning when one would expect a peak of trade use. A few cars. No trade vans or pickups. I drove back past a different one at around 1700 - again a typical trade time - no vans. I went to one on Saturday morning, quite early, for a bag of ballast. Quite a few DIY browsers. No trade vans. If the trade are using these places, they are doing so at times when they are not frequenting builders merchants, which seems implausible.

Very limited if so. They don't even have a comprehensive range of electrical fittings and the paint selection is dire.

Plumbing doesn't matter too much, but electrical fittings do. Only own brand, rather mediocre and unclear how long they would be available.

Cheap to mid range. Nothing special.

[Doctor Drivel]

The problem with you is that you are a wannabee tradesman. Never managed to be a craftsman so buy pro tool to convince himself that he is as good as them. In fact, most tradesmen do buy on price. They know the tools will not last that long and don't care as it is cost effective to do so. If a tool lasts over 3 years they delighted, as in that time it has probably bounced

150 times.

You are.

People who want space with matter around it.

[Andy Hall]

Taken across the whole product portfolio, the market shares are clear and widely documented.

Looking at individual products, there are numerous reasons for doing a promotion which have nothing to do with being worried about a minor manufacturer:

- The product is going end of life in production and stocks are being cleared for a new one

- There are some economies of scale in production from increased volume.

- Capture some market share on a given product line from a competitor

- Push more product through a given channel, increasing commissions for sales staff and encouraging them to sell other products in the range. Focus in other words

- Spoiler to small beer competition to force them to drop prices and margin further

- New marketing manager wants to impress his boss.

All of these, and more, are common promo reasons across a broad spectrum of products. I've used all of them myself except the last at one point or another.

Not really. You don't understand how marketing is done by major manufacturers, do you....

[Andy Hall]

.. and this was after the warranty had expired, was it?

Where do condiments for salmon come into this?

Not logical. Amount of usage is totally different to performance and usability.

[Doctor Drivel]

They are.

They don't work on Sunday.

Kress and Hitachi? My oh my!

[Andy Hall]

Of course not. It is a business established over a period of time including establishment of brand loyalty. That only happens with good designs, good manufacturing, (especially) good marketing and good service.

I think you've lost the plot. You certainly haven't understood how design, manufacturing and marketing works.

Which illustrates the point admirably.