Mac Disaster

[:Jerry:]

Until the same ignorant customer steps into B&Q to compare prices...

Andy is right about one thing, the tools spec' should be consulted and not what colour the tool is.

[Andy Hall]

So what is your explanation for Hitachi being added?

[Andy Hall]

You don't understand the differences between label, brand and product offering

Exactly.

Then why add another if the range is comprehensive as you say?

.. and green/black? Is this super special full pro or what?

I haven't said anything of the sort.

The point is that B&Q are selling DeWalt, Makita and Bosch but not Hitachi (IIRC).

If Wickes are looking for differentiation, then they may well choose another broad range manufacturer. That's really the only one left.

Another possibility is that B&Q (if they are smart) have something written into the contracts with the manufacturers not to sell to Wickes. Again, IIRC, Homebase and Focus are not selling these products either.

Screwfix is a different discussion entirely because it's a different type of channel.

[dmc]

That was the one I suspect - opposite Toy'r'us?

Darren

[Andy Hall]

Another classic from our master of the English language.

[Stuart Noble]

It's becoming obvious that Andy is a tool snob, and will invent imaginary scenarios (like people lining up at the B&Q returns counter) to justify his tool addiction. Horses for courses is the only sane approach. A cheap jigsaw will cut laminate flooring, but not a worktop. A cheap drill will do much the same as an expensive one providing you don't intend using it all day and dropping it off scaffolding. Both strategies are equally valid and the market structured accordingly. The idea that anyone on here has an intimate knowledge of what Makita or Kress are thinking is faintly ridiculous.

[:Jerry:]

Hmm, that's probably because you've had him neutered (think about it...), if only one could have all the Drivels of the world neutered.

[Andy Hall]

If you don't want to buy quality products, that is your choice.

Have you never seen people at B&Q returning broken products? I would find that surprising.

Exactly.

Assuming that one were to lay laminate flooring in the first place. A cheap jigsaw won't even cut a reasonable line on thin material. As to using a jigsaw to cut a worktop, the suggestion is ridiculous, for any jigsaw unless you are talking about the hole for a sink.

Level of utilisation is only one factor. Others are weight, ergnonomics, precision of control, accuracy and servicability.

Other than the management of the companies concerned, that is obviously true. However, market reports and financial data are in the public domain. Marketing strategies for distributed products are common across virtually all industries.

Part of marketing is figuring out what the moves of your competitors are likely to be before they make them and that is done usually without intimate knowledge.

Given all of that, it is not very difficult to work out a range of possible scenarios for business practices and that is what has been described.

[Doctor Drivel]

You have cats? My, oh, my!

[Andy Hall]

Three.

[Doctor Drivel]

Choice and to make money. Duh!

[Doctor Drivel]

I fully agree with you. He slags a quality maker because it allows its product to be rebadged - and this high service, quality family business throws a spanner in the works of his warped views. Initially Kress sold in Wickes as Kress.

[Andy Hall]

No I haven't, I've simply highlighted that they have limitations and are attempting to compete in the mass market with a me-too product range. For me, that is a cause for concern. If I were buying products to have a one year lifetime and throw them away, I wouldn't care. However, I don't, but rather buy for a much longer period. I would rather buy a good quality item once than three mediocre ones lasting for maybe the same time. For that reason, I want to be convinced about long term viability of the supplier.

To me, small volume, commodity market, selling private label in a major market, not having anything innovative, high cost manufacturing locations are all warning bells. They don't fit together. Having an apparently good service compounds this further. I am not slagging them off. Far from it, I wish them all the luck in the world because they are going to need it. However, I won't buy their products.

OTOH, if they were acquired by a substantive company, moved their product up market and added some innovative products, it would be a very different matter. I would much prefer to purchase a product manufactured in Europe. However, there aren't any quality broad range products left with the exception of Festool and Metabo.

I haven't said that Kress isn't providing good service. What Wickes is offering for their private labeled version may be something else.

Moreover, I have not said that either product is bad, but from looking at, picking up and operating several, I do not find the quality level to be as good as that of Makita for drills and Bosch for jigsaws. That's an opinion.

So why isn't it any longer?

[Doctor Drivel]

You have.

Like Kress/Wickes?

There is Kress. Cable Porter (Norm Abe'?) in the USA redbage the same Kress SDS drills that Wickes use and other products too.

The same service agent - common sense would say that.

BMJ Power went belly up because of the sheds. Shame because they had High St outlets and good service - Kress and B&D service agents. All Kress and B&Ds went to them, among others.

In the meantime Wickes took hold of Kress products in the UK under their name. Who cares what name it has? I don't. I know what it is under the badge.

[Andy Hall]

The problem with selling through resellers/OEMs, especially on an exclusive basis, is that the reseller dictates the level of business and probably the terms.

What happens if the manufacturer decides that he needs a higher rate of growth than the reseller is willing to sign up to do?

Yes of course. The problem with it, and I think it's a big problem, is that all eggs go into one basket. If the single Big Thing fails, then there is nothing. Results never meet expectations.

Probably not.

Sales through channels are something I've been involved in a lot. A genuine OEM deal (i.e. a different product, not a badged one) can be interesting as long as it increases reachability. Labelled products and identical own name products tend not to work because either the Labelee doesn't sell anything or brings down the market price of the branded product. Moreover, they tend to be product shifters and don't pursue the maintenance business. Big chunk of margin lost right there.

Exclusive deals are the worst of all because what does the manufacturer do if commitments aren't met? He has a contract and may have wording to make it non exclusive. He still has to (re) build his market position.

[dennis]

I just bought a B&D drill with the intention of it lasting ten minutes.. I really only wanted the battery but its cheaper with the drill and charger. B&D batteries fits DeWalt stuff once you hack off the plastic lugs added to stop them fitting and are a lot cheaper and appear to be identical inside the plastic box. As it happens the drill works quite well so I might keep it to drill pilot holes and as somewhere to store the spare battery.

[Andy Hall]

I already explained to you that I haven't

I also explained to you why I wouldn't purchase from that company.

There is also Sparky. I would be more likely to buy that if I were buying short term tools.

PC is making little themselves these days.

It would, but is it?

All of which suggests that this isn't tenable at the price point.

Who is taking responsibility for it? Where is the UK service? Where are the spares?

[Andy Hall]

Nothing wrong with that. However, it may not be the same grade of battery

[Tony Bryer]

I'm sure that is the arrangement. But if Wickes can shift the volume why should they want to do otherwise? They presumably deliver full pallets to one distribution depot, liaise with one product manager at Wickes HO and invoice Wickes once a week or month. In short, huge swathes of admin and marketing expenses are transferred to Wickes. Meanwhile Makita et al have to run dealer support, advertising programs, POS production and a whole load of other stuff to keep their tools on the shelves of hundreds of independent outlets, and this is part of what you're paying for.

If Wickes suddenly decided that they wanted to sell steel beam software (unlikely since they don't sell steel beams ) and offered me a exclusive OEM deal on SuperBeam with a guaranteed (say) 50 units a week, I could make more than I do now, they could make 100% gross profit whilst selling it for less than we do. But I'm not expecting the phone to ring!

[Stuart Noble]

Now that's just being a snob. I don't like laminate, but I don't feel the need to snipe every time it's mentioned.

A

Well, of course the sink

None of which the average user is the least bit interested in for the odd few tasks. If he uses it every day, that's another matter