Mac Disaster

Let's see you cut a nice straight line in thick timber with a budget jigsaw then.

Reply to
John Rumm
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I agree. It is terrible him slagging your shag-pile.

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

Not really. As I said, laminate flooring has very little going for it.

That's a separate issue. I was being practical about the use of laminate floor. Carpet is another discussion entirely. I don't have any any significant amount of that and what is left is going, but not for reasons of any statement it might or might not make.

Reply to
Andy Hall

It would be, if as a statement across the board it were true. However, you will have noticed that I did not say that *all* cheap tools imply poor results or that accuracy can't always be achieved.

However, if you consider the case of jig saws, routers, compound mitre saws and drill drivers in some applications it certainly is.

There are some cases where accuracy can be achieved given enough time taken. Some uses of mitre saws fall in that category in that it is possible to repeat a cut if one takes enough time to set the thing up again. There's the rub. Is the user going to take the trouble to do that or is he going to get dogged off and either assume that the tool type generically can't do a decent job (e.g. jig saw) or simply not bother and compromise the quality?

None of this has anything to do with being patronising.

Reply to
Andy Hall

I think that if they sharpen their pencil just a little with the prices they could do very well, as you say.

That's impressive as an offering. Elektra Beckum is pretty good as a SC mitre saw - at least one model with induction motor. They have been owned by Metabo for a while and it looks as though the EB name is gradually being faded. it is on the machinery.

Reply to
Andy Hall

Or any other jigsaw come to that. You've picked on the one example I think we are all agreed on. The rest are not so cut and dried

Reply to
Stuart Noble

We're back to horses and courses. Pretty much any mitre saw will cut accurately every time and take no longer than an expensive one. Anything that slides needs bearings and we know they aren't cheap

Reply to
Stuart Noble

Perhaps not for you, nor me, but for them it has, be that to tart the house up before flogging it or because they might have dogs that moult for example but can't afford a quality surface, you are obviously not short of a bob or two Andy, you buy the best and can put the best down yourself (just as you are about tools) - most people don't fail into that category and it certainly doesn't warrant other people being publicly snobbish about what they can afford.

Reply to
:Jerry:

Not necessarily. A sliding mitre saw with some slack in the motion is not going to be 100% accurate.

For power tools ideally you want something powerful, versatile, durable, capable of producing good work, nice to use (weight NVH), service backup and a low price. In virtually every case you have to do without one of these ... which may or may not matter.

Reply to
Tony Bryer

I think laminate flooring is fabulous....and block paving naff.

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

Depends on what you mean by accuracy. My first mitre saw was a budget chop saw. You could cut an accurate mitre with it but it needed lots of setting up the first time to get a true 45 degrees both ways. After that you needed to spend time aligning the table each time you changed cut side. There were no pre-set stops at 45 degrees you needed to align the scale to a pointer each time. So it was time consuming and accuracy was difficult to achieve. The mechanism also had enough flex in it that if you did not take care to plunge it straight (i.e. with no side force on the handle) you would wander a fraction off square.

For all its flaws it was fine for cutting studwork (the square cuts anyway) - the results were near enough. Picture frames were just about doable but slow. For many tasks however it lacked cutting capacity and repeatability was not good enough.

Reply to
John Rumm

Use a £5 circular saw, it will do it better than an expensive jigsaw.

Reply to
dennis

I think you are missing the point and it's certainly not a snobbery issue. There is not a lot of difference in cost between a laminate floor and a hardwood one. Laminate costs in the order of £15 per square metre and 20mm hardwood can be obtained for £25-30.

In a living room of (say) 20 sq metres, that amounts only to about £200 difference.

Even without the small difference in cost, the downsides of laminate just don't make it worth considering on any basis that I can see. Goodness knows why the sell the stuff.

Reply to
Andy Hall

One would like to think so, but sadly it isn't true. I used to have an old Delta mitre saw that was quite reasonable among products costing £150 or thereabouts.

It could only achieve a repeatability of 1mm or so without careful realignment after every couple of cuts.

Exactly. Hence the gret deception. The basic SCMS products are just not in the same league as the decent ones. Possibly OK for doing jointing for roof timbers but nothing much more than that.

Reply to
Andy Hall

It is when you don't know the rational behind their choice and then publicly make comment as to why you wouldn't be seen dead with the product.

There is not a lot of difference in cost between a laminate

Yes, and that difference in cost could be the difference between feeding the kids or not that month.

Well the fact that you think £200 is a "small difference in cost" says it all - you really do seem totally removed from reality. :~(

Reply to
:Jerry:

Might not be a snobbery issue but you are unrealistic with the costs not being significant. If you hang around for sales you can get the better quality laminate for under 15 quid a metre (note I avoid the phrase "good quality" :-)). That's half the price of hardwood (at the very best).

Most of our downstairs is laminate of one sort or the other. When we bought the housewe couldn't afford decent flooring so laminate was slapped down as a quick fix - 6 years later it's still pretty much as good as it was. Sure, it's not great and yeah, it looks plastic (although ours is slightly better than some...) but it was all we could realisticly afford. With two kids under 6 we haven't bothered to consider changing it. It copes with spills etc well and more importantly, it's brilliant for the scalextric and the train sets ;-)

200 quid isn't a small different to many people. It certainly was a lot of money to us when we were struggling to buy our first house.

Its cheap, hardwearing and dead easy to lay. If I could have afforded decent hardwood flooring then I would have (and probably will once the kids are both clear of nursery fees).

Darren - not really a fan of laminate but it has its place

Reply to
dmc

Actually no.

All I said was (and I quote)

"Assuming that one were to lay laminate flooring in the first place"

I didn't add all the embellishments regarding the reasons and motivations for the comment - you did.

Doubtful. Do you know what it costs to feed kids for a month?

In the context of refurbishing a room, doing an extension or a large number of other projects in the house, it's a small difference in cost, and that's complete reality.

Reply to
Andy Hall

That depends on what one considers as significant. In the context of a room refurbishment, let alone an extension or many other house projects, it's not a lot at all.

That's the best reason yet. do you let the small kids play with them? :-)

That I can appreciate. Equally, for most people, provided that there hasn't been ridiculous over stretching in the first place, the struggle becomes less over time.

Assuming that you decide not to go for other school fees to replace them. That's a different discussion altogether.

Reply to
Andy Hall

I know what it costs to feed *me* for a month, in fact my outgoings are less than £200 a month (excl rent).

Owain

Reply to
Owain

-> being significant. If you hang around for sales you can get the better

-> quality laminate for under 15 quid a metre (note I avoid the phrase "good

-> quality" :-)). That's half the price of hardwood (at the very best).

If all you can afford is to skim the walls, slap up some paint and make some curtains from some end of roll material it's a lot.

In terms of an extension, yes, it's a no brainer. As I said, I will no doubt replace it over time. I'd kinda planned to do it by now but it's survived so well it'll be staying for while.

-> Most of our downstairs is laminate of one sort or the other. When we bought

-> the housewe couldn't afford decent flooring so laminate was slapped down

-> as a quick fix - 6 years later it's still pretty much as good as it was.

-> Sure, it's not great and yeah, it looks plastic (although ours is slightly

-> better than some...) but it was all we could realisticly afford. With two

-> kids under 6 we haven't bothered to consider changing it. It copes with

-> spills etc well and more importantly, it's brilliant for the scalextric

-> and the train sets ;-)

they can watch :)

Heh. One for another day I feel.

Darren

Reply to
dmc

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