Grenfell Tower - Celotex

En el artículo , Andrew escribió:

Yes, that video clip was a real eye-opener. There'll be some worried people in building control today.

I'm finding this all a bit odd. Surely anyone that knows anything about fir e knows that no amount of retardant stops plastics burning if sufficient ex ternal heat is applied, and it's pretty obvious that that's exactly what ha ppens in a raging building fire. Ie any form of plastic insulation is going to go up if well flamed first. And thus the only sensible insulation to us e on a high rise tower is anything non-combustible, ie it must be free of p lastics. PE or FR treated PE just don't cut it.

NT

Being endothermic is not a necessary condition for lack of flammability.

But there were claims that it was "endothermic" which it is not.

It is able to produce some heat if it is burnt, so that energy may contribute to the fire overall even if the PIR is not the primary fuel - which I presume it isn't as the ali cladding was claimed to have a PE core.

I agree. We don't know if the council specified a fairly safe system, with sufficient fire breaks to stop the whole system sustaining combustion, and the contractor did not follow it. Or if the specified system was inherently unsafe. Even in the latter case, I think the contractor may bear a share of responsibility, as they had a duty not to do something stupid, and it is possible that setting up a 400 foot chimney with accelerant to cook the Celotex could have been predicted to be a bad idea. But maybe not obvious at the time, and I am not going to assume any specific party is at fault without a lot of evidence. A surprisingly brave (given the prejudices of the Civil Service) decision by May to hold a judicial enquiry, which is the only way we *might* (or might not) ever know.

So do we stay in for the next one or pop out for some popcorn?

Presumably they have no choice. And with the demand for replacement landlords and unsafe work there won't be a rush to rebuild, thus leaving a business opportunity for property speculation.

But never mind about fools being stupid, why was there so much delay about specifications? It wasn't as if Microsoft was buying out the ISO committee again. Was the problem getting the Chinese to agree or what?

They only one I saw that was claimed as endothermic was PVC. Celotex is not PVC.

Either way, neither is...

not in scotland .....

at least building standards surveyors do a responsible job that affects the health and safety of people unlike the majority on here that seem to be computer and IT experts who only get dirty putting on there makeup and bodypaint ......

Not sure many are having a go at building standards surveyors. More the lack of them - apparently - with some councils and builds, where such things are self assessed by the contractors. And regulations (such as BS for cladding etc) which appear to be very out of date.

retardant stops plastics burning if sufficient external heat is applied, and it's pretty obvious that that's exactly what happens in a raging building fire. Ie any form of plastic insulation is going to go up if well flamed first. And thus the only sensible insulation to use on a high rise tower is anything non-combustible, ie it must be free of plastics. PE or FR treated PE just don't cut it.

And that means rockwool slabs.

I think I read somewhere that 150 mm of celetex was being used. This seems to be overkill, assuming that it tightly affixed to the underlying concrete structure, which is practically impossible because of the rough surface of the concrete, plus the corner and intermediate columns that had a surface shape that rigid board-style insulation is always going to be kludged.

SO it could well be that hot gases at 700+ centigrade shot up both sides of the celotex boards.

Where entire outer leafs of brickwork were ripped off schools by the strength of the wind ..

///

their, their, calm down dear.

Yes - apparently lack of ties between inner and outer. Something being checking as you go would show up.

Really says something about the integrity of a contractor if they save money on something like that.

Don't forget that at one time not long ago they used galvanised ties. These could rust through so maybe people with houses 30+ years old need checks?

That was PPP what did you expect? .......

yes nothing is foolproof and lasts for ever .......not even the old fashioned methods...look at built in wallplates and timber safe lintols .....

The building regulations are always out of date.......no self assessment in Scotland or private inspectors well not the last time I looked.......The English system stinks .......