Electric cars still a bit shite

Renault are starting to really push their Zoe electric car. It's an amusing price, but massively subsidised by European governments (ie by you, me and every other taxpayer).
Renault advertise it as 130 mile range but in the small print is detail that the real world range is closer to 60 miles. But the interesting detail is that you have to rent the battery. That will cost the driver £80 a month for 7500 miles a year.
So that's 13p/mile just for the battery. And my wife's boring old petrol car costs.... 13p/mile in petrol.
I'm struggling to see what makes the electric car a good idea.
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On 09/08/2013 15:25, Steve Firth wrote:

So the battery charging costs are on top?
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Yes, but probably not going to be a lot. Car tax is zero so there's a small saving there.
Inability to visit the ageing parents without an overnight rest stop would kill it for me.
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On Fri, 9 Aug 2013 15:46:35 +0000 (UTC), Steve Firth wrote:

That

My diesel guzzler only costs 19p/mile in diesel.

Well say a 30 kWHr battery and M-F wage slave and a trip out at the weekend 6 charges a week: 6 x 30 = 180 kWHrs @ 10p = £18/week, app rox £75/month. Hum around 26p/mile.... Even charging every other day is about the same as my diesel guzzler. B-)

With a 60 mile real world range the inablty to do the weekly shop would kill it for me.
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Quite. It would have been fine for my usual commute in London, though. But not with those overall costs for what would have to be a second car for town only use.
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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Remarkably (although I'm sure things will soon change), it only costs £10 /year membership to use the London EV on-street/public charging network - w ith no additional charge for electricity:
https://www.sourcelondon.net/membership
Even so, the main problem seems to be that EV's are most use if you live in the inner city - where you're least likely to be able to park in your own driveway to charge-up.
(I wonder if anyone's collecting up car-full's of free electricity, taking it home, and dumping it into their feed-in tariff?).
As your pricing example points out, EV's are *nearly* there, and the Renaul t pricing deal will be enough to bring-in more early adopters.
I've also heard plans for retrofit conversions to existing street lighting for add-on charging points. I suspect roll-out of public charge points will soon become the choke-point for inner-city adoption.
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Not with a pissy 130 mile range they aren't; I get a 600 mile range with a dizzle C4.
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On Friday, 9 August 2013 16:59:13 UTC+1, Tim Streater wrote:

It isn't all about price and specification for early adopters of new technology (or for that matter for a large proportion of car-buyers generally).
I suspect Renault will get sufficient volume of sales now, with their "rent a battery" deal, to get governments to support a wider roll-out of subsidy deals, public charging infrastructure etc.
The beneficiaries are likely to be well-heeled 2nd car owners that have a well-defined niche for that vehicle (in fact rather like the car scrappage scheme of a few years ago).
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On 09/08/2013 17:23, snipped-for-privacy@gglz.com wrote:

Quite. Plus a (possibly misplaced) concern about environmental issues. That's a cost that has a price some are willing to pay.
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I doubt many people actually need a 600 mile range. Few would drive that distance without stopping - especially in the UK.
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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On 09/08/2013 19:40, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I bought the long range tank for my car specifically to give me a better range than that for when I go touring in Europe. I won't do it non-stop, but I also don't have to buy fuel at motorway prices.
Colin Bignell
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Also on those sorts of drives fuel stops are a significant drag consuming as much as a half hour every few hundred miles. With a long range tank it's possible to get much further with less stress. And of course there's "fill up in Luxembourg" syndrome. A fill there with a large tank can save "quite a bit" of money.
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wrote:

But it costs a lot (of fuel) to haul that weight of fuel around.
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Yes harry, having to lug around 80kg of fuel is a real burden when compared to having to lug around 300-600kg of batteries in order to have half the range (at best) of a petrol car.
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On 10/08/2013 19:52, Steve Firth wrote:

I've always thought that extra weight is a significant penalty when climbing hills and when accelerating, but relatively little penalty when travelling at a more or less constant speed on a moderately flat motorway.
That would tend to make the battery-carrying impact even more on the stop-start/short range electric car than the fuel weight on long journeys.
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[snip]

Cars like the Fiat 500 have around 85kg of engine and transmission. They carry 35 kg of fuel. Electric cars have more than double that weight of battery. The Fiat manages around 70mpg, giving it a 540 mile maximum range.
The Nissan Leaf is inferior in every respect.
The Nissan costs £24k, the Fiat is about half that price.
You'd have to be an utter shithead to buy the Leaf.
I drove a Fiat 500 Twin Air over the Apennines last year. It was OK, coped with the hills really well. Then again it wasn't lugging around batteries weighing as much as three fat yanks.
It also got me to my destination. An electric car wouldn't have managed the distance.
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On 10/08/2013 20:39, Steve Firth wrote:

<snip>

Bet you didn't get 70MPG up there :)
<snip more>

That's not news :)
Andy
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On 10/08/2013 20:02, polygonum wrote:

In the stop-start scenario they can (and do!) use regenerative braking - recharge the battery with the motors instead of throwing the energy away. That's what they are really good at - that and not having a tickover burning fuel even when sitting still.
But back a step - the weight difference between full and empty on my car is perhaps 50Kg. Out of 1500. So ~3%. I don't notice it.
Andy
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and my Mazda 6 diesel does both those things. It uses the regenerated energy to power the starter.

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wrote:

For all of five seconds.
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