Council tax and new ways..........

Folly of the 1980s and 1990s. ;-((

Yes, but NuLabr believe that everyone should get a prize for effort, actual achievement doesn't count.

I agree...

Ye Gods :-) Never thought I'd see the day! And then on the same morning someone is thanking Dr D for a tip too!

I agree too BTW...

-- Holly, in France Holiday Home in Dordogne

But the cheap Tory government made that change in the 80s and 90s. New universities of the 60s were produced by proper (Tory & Labour) governments the hard way - though one of the best (the Open University) only survived because of the premature death of a Tory Chancellor of the Exchequer.

Absolutely. There is nothing wrong with technical colleges and no reason to "rebrand" them with the title of University.

I don't believe higher education should be subject to market forces either. There are some things (such as education, healthcare and public transport) that are too important to leave to the money men. These things should NOT have anything to do with profit.

This has been one of my points all along. Universities should be able to focus on what they do best - fundamentally an education in how to think and resolve issues. This is not a suitable education for everybody, and for many, something more vocationally (e.g. from polytechnic etc) focussed is a better option. Neither should be considered to have a higher status than the the other.

This depends on your definition of market forces. I don't necessarily equate this to being equal to a profit motive.

I think that these are far to important to have in the hands of the government.

I think that *delivery* of said services should be outside the remit of government. However, it is possible for them to be delivered by both non-profit and for-profit organisations. Non-government does not equate to for-profit.

There was a perfectly good prize for effort - it was called a CSE.

Owain

The GCSE, merging GCE O Level and CSE, was launched in 1986 in the middle of the Thatcher Tory government - putting the knee-jerk anti-lLabour sentiment in its place.

The 11 Plus is still sat. I thought that garbage had gone years ago.

Both my daughters sat it. The elder probably achieved a higher score than boys that were paid by the LEA to go to the local private grammar school but she could only go to the girls' equivalent if we paid. We did. She later went to university and now has a degree and a PGCE.

The 11-plus still causes havoc around here.

I should be banned forthwith. It is the most stupid thing British education ever came up with. It stinks of petty snobbery.

It says much about your IQ if you think IQ has anything to do with snobbery.

Couldn't agree more.

So why do you want a similar model applied to schools?

Mark.

I think selection based on ability is better than selection based on the size of your wallet!

Mark.

In the old days of grammar and secondary modern schools it also resulted in a better social mixture.

Hmm. I went to a grammar school with a secondary modern on one side and a girls public school on the other. We were banned from going within 50 yards of one fence lest we be corrupted by the riff-raff and from going within 50 yards of the other lest we corrupt the young ladies. The school finishing times were staggered to avoid mixing.