Council tax and new ways..........

[Jonathan]

[...]

I know it's not good form to have "me too" types of replies, but...damn good points, succinctly made!

[John Cartmell]

I appreciate that some people find it dificult to think beyond their own personal needs and it takes time and patience to appreciate anything more - but the reality of anarchy is so nasty that you do need to make the effort.

[John Cartmell]

I think the LibDems would disagree with your reasoning there.

[Brian Sharrock]

Yet another diversion tactic. You're the self-identified advocate for the Government's position not the LibDem's position.

[Andy Hall]

Who said anything about anarchy?

Of course it takes time and patience to think beyond individual needs. That is why the individual should be encouraged to do so rather than the state doing his thinking for him.

This extrapolates very obviously into policing and crime as well. The more that individuals are encouraged to take responsibility for themselves in as many aspects as possible - i.e. they own the consequences and the outcome - the less the need for the involvement of the state and the money wasted on its mechanisms.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

So you'd be assessed on the number of bags of rubbish that had to be taken away? How often you walked and wore out the pavement? ;-)

[Jonathan]

A point; when I was doing my "round the world" thing, I would often work in hostels/backpackers when staying for any length of time, and almost without exception, the people who left the most mess, who ignored the kitchens rules about cleaning and putting away pans and stuff in the communal kitchens, were the Chinese. I hasten to add, it wasn't ALL Chinese doing it, but when it happened, it was usually them. And the reason was that "the state provides" - it's a mindset of dependancy that says that outside your home, your life is micro-managed by big government. (These are the observances of other travellers who have spent time in China)

[John Cartmell]

You need to be rather selective about Government policies to call me their advocate! ;-)

[Geoffrey]

IIRC, it was something to do with Crispin & Pamela St John Regis living in the 3 bed penthouse in Belgravia Daddy bought them as a wedding gift paying pretty much the same as Darran and Tracey Butcher living in their 2 bed council penthouse in Tower Hamlets.

I could be wrong though - I often am.

[Jonathan]

Why be assessed? Why not just charge for each bag, like many places do? Pay at point of use - but if an idea is simple, it's probably not going to work. How much fairer could it be than to scrap the complex idea of banded road tax discs, and just stick it on the price of petrol? The more you use, the more you pay.

I've just realised something - how on earth did we get onto this in a DIY group?!?

[John Cartmell]

There would be no rubbish collection and no pavement. You need co-operation for those and people willing to give their time freely for the benefit of others.

[Tony Bryer]

There was also the slightly more philosophical argument - not without merit - that if you paid very little or nothing in rates then you would be inclined to vote for a high spending Council as you wouldn't be picking up the cost, whilst if everyone had to pay something everyone would be interested in value for money and cutting out waste. Of course in reality people see their councils (of all parties) wasting money and shrug their shoulders.

[Andy Hall]

Well no... I was thinking more about the high ticket items like education and those that can easily be handled individually.

[Chris Bacon]

They've already been subjected to huge tax bills....

...who didn't have to pay the full amount - possible anything at all.

[Andy Hall]

You mean that pavement laying and street cleaning needs to be a voluntary social project?

[John Cartmell]

One reason is that some people wouldn't want to pay the cost an would leave rubbish lying around. That's not good news for the neighbours - for the smell or their health. Getting it done as a community is the best way for the community.

[Andy Hall]

As it is, the so-called "community" idea doesn't work properly. In many areas collection of garden waste and large items is charged separately to regular collection and can be a problem in itself.

It is dealt with when individual people take responsibility for their immediate environment and that of their neighbours.

A better solution would be to make it people's responsibility and if they choose not to behave responsibly to levy a fine.

[John Cartmell]

Regular collections paid for out of the rates (or whatever) are by far the best - and most cost effective - method.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

So you'd always have someone at home when the dustman called? Or would you expect to be billed? Doesn't sound that efficient to me...

That's a reasonable idea, but then the excise duty arrangement also helps keep track of a car's ownership and that there is up to date insurance and MOT. Of course both these are now on a central computer so perhaps we'll see the duty reduced to purely an administration fee. But then people moan enough about the tax on petrol. Would they be happy to see it go up?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

So you believe only the children of the well off should be educated? Have you thought this one through?