Council tax and new ways..........

[Doctor Drivel]

Roger, give up. You are being thrashed a superior intellect. Which isn't very difficult.

[Matt]

You have to bear in mind the "ones" breeding the fastest (12-14 years between successive generations is not unknown) contribute the smallest amount, if any, to the National Insurance / Inland Revenue pool.

[John Cartmell]

So those choosing to have no kids aren't being selfish? I have met people as you describe and they are usually very involved with helping other people's kids. It's the others that have no stake in the future.

[Roger]

The message from "Doctor Drivel" contains these words:

Drivel by name, drivel by nature. What don't you say something constructive for a change? Or better still get a job.

[Geoffrey]

No, you are suggesting a voucher system that allows parents with decent jobs/income to be able to choose the school of their choice while those who do not are forced to send their children to what ever school will take vouchers alone. It is a truly appalling idea.

Now you are suggesting that the private schools get even MORE money.

I could accept tax relief on school fees if, and only if, that money went to underfunded state schools.

How would you feel about that idea?

[John Cartmell]

I was going to complain about DD exaggerating on my behalf - even though it wasn't a bad one-liner. But when you reply to one-liners you really need to trump it; your 'get a job' fails miserably - except to prove him right ...

;-) Tongue in cheek smiley suggesting that you don't take it to heart!

[Doctor Drivel]

Roger, I am being constructive. Pull out now as you are out of your depth. You are being thrashed my son, thrashed.

[Doctor Drivel]

I am not exaggerating, Roger is being thrashed as usual. He needs someone to tell him to pull out.

[Andy Hall]

You didn't read all of what I said. I also made the point that for situations where a child has a strong ability and motivation for a specific form of education (not necessarily of academic nature) but is limited because of parental income, that it would be reasonable for said funding to come via the state or via charitable foundation in schools of that status.

I'm not suggesting that at all, only that funds should flow to the school as opposed to the parents.

I think that you are missing the point entirely. The main issue is to separate the funding from the delivery aspect of education. The concept of "state" schools as we know them today would disappear and they would become independently managed via any of the mechanisms already described.

[Geoffrey]

Ah - IC. All the well off kids go to good schools and one or two of the brightest or most talented poor kids get a charitable donation towards decent/superior schooling.

All the average poor kids can go to the "poor" schools.

How is that any less appalling?

I assumed you were suggesting that the funds should flow into the schools where the extra-paying parents sent their children. Am I wrong? If you are suggesting that the tax relief goes ito the "voucher only" system then I'm all for it. I have no problem with the well off subsidising the less well off.

I am not missing the point at all. You want schools to be subject to market forces. I think that is a Bad Idea.

I think our fundamental difference is that I believe that all children have the right to a decent education and you believe that all children have a right to an adequate education with those who can afford it or whose parents are willing to make sacrifices being given a superior education according to market forces currently in play.

Is that a reasonable definition?

[Andy Hall]

I didn't put any numbers on how many go where, neither did I say that any particular school would be poor or not poor.

I also didn't suggest that any particular school or type of school should be more or less "superior" to another. That is within the remit of the schools themselves.

The point is that that becomes in the hands of the parents in terms of schools that they choose and the schools in terms of what they deliver.

I've made it completely clear. A voucher is simply a non-cash way for the parent to make their choice of which school they wish to use regardless of it's ownership status. As I said, I don't think that the state should be in the delivery business anyway, and that current state schools should move into a self-managed status.

Tax relief is a separate issue, and again the point should be that said relief should earmarked for the education of the child. This puts more money into education because more parents would be encouraged to contribute to additional funding for their childrens' education. As it is today, there is a disincentive because that comes out of taxed income.

That's your choice. Higher education is certainly subject to market forces. I see no reason why that shouldn't apply to all forms of what we understand as state services today, including all forms of education and healthcare.

The state can potentially do a semi-reasonable job of collecting funds (although there would need to be a thorough cleanout of HMRC to achieve that). It is completely incompetent at service delivery and should stop wasting our money on attempting it.

No. I believe that all children should receive an appropriate education for their abilities and motivations. I don't think that any one form should be considered to be more or less valuable than another. If people wish to be driven by the earning potential of a given field, then market forces dictate that anyway. If they prefer to pursue a different path, then that should be fine as well.

I most definitely don't think that the one size fits all mentality or the notion of education in everything in every form under one roof (i.e. comprehensive educaction) makes any sense. It is a failed social experiment from the 60s and 70s that should have been dumped long ago.

I certainly do think that parents should have the choice over which type or owned status of school that they wish to use, and if they wish to supplement what the state provides in terms of funding, that they should be able and encouraged to do so without penalty.

[Geoffrey]

stuff I disagree with but after a day clearing and prepping a bedroom for redecoration I'm too tired to respond.

Plus I think it's time to move to uk.politics

Plus my head is full of bathroom redecoration ideas.

Is it possible to to tile a bathroom floor to ceiling and get a decent result without actually moving the bath, handbasin and toilet? Tiling I am willing to have a go at and the local tile shop has a fine selection of discontinued stock at knock down prices ATM. Plumbing is, I think, beyond me. Can't really afford to get a plumber in - just had to pay the first installment of Uni tuition and accomodation fees for my eldest.

[Andy Hall]

It really depends on the shapes of them.

The bath might be a possibility depending on the shape of the top. You might be able to hide the edge behind a bead of silicone.

Handbasins are often curved and trying to cut tiles to a curved shape to fit usually doesn't lead to a pretty result. Same with a cistern.

However, it's not that hard to temporarily remove a cistern or a basin. Normally you can disconnect the tap connectors that go on the taps and the cistern ball valve. Buy some fibre washers for about 1p each from a plumbers merchants before starting. Then you will need two wrenches.

If the cistern valve is plastic, when refitting it is best to slacken the nut on the cistern to allow it to be free. Then put the nut of the tap connector on the thread and finally tighten everything.

To achieve this, it really is not very difficult. However, don't wait until Sunday lunchtime, just in case you need any bits.

It is worth getting an electric tile cutter. These can be had for less than £50 and will help make a really good job.

I remember it well. Tax relief would be beneficial :-)

[Geoffrey]

Grants would be better!

[Owain]

Sending at least one of the bairns to plumbing college would have been better still!

Surely the well-planned family will produce 1 x lawyer, 1 x doctor, 1 x plumber, and 1 x devoted spinster daughter to look after parents in old age.

Owain

[Andy Hall]

That would do, too....

[Geoffrey]

I am currently working on that. No.2 son has no idea what he wants to do (apart from being a drummer) I'm doing a lot of hinting about plumbing, building, plastering etc. No luck with No.1 daughter - insists on being a teacher of small children.

One child making vast quantities of cash would do. Have invested in drums and have fingers crossed.

[Owain]

Possibly being a teacher of small children will be good preparation for looking after aged parents in second childhood :-)

Fingers not stuck in ears? ;-)

Owain

[Geoffrey]

Earplugs dull the noise, nothing on earth would block it out...

Fortunately he's good and I'm really starting to get into Death Metal.

[Mark]

And look what a mess higher education is in now!

Mark