OT: inconsiderate shoppers

[Rod Speed]

We used to see that in the 70s, but no one does that now. But then almost no one pays anything like 2% now in Australia. With debit cards its quite literally only a few cents, and not a percentage of the transaction fee.

For quite a while we did have quite a few merchants who wouldn?t accept an electronic payment for transactions of under $5 in value, but even that isnt that common anymore, largely because of our much lower merchant fees.

Big operations like Aldi only pay 0.5% and only on credit card transactions, not debit cards. Problem is that all contactless transactions are technically credit transactions even if it?s a debit card unless its another type of card, what we call an EFTPOS card which isnt a credit or debit card.

[Steven Watkins]

I think in the UK it's around 2% for credit cards and nothing for debit.= The 2% is I think something like 1.5% to 3.5% depending on the volume = of sales in the shop.

I think here it's just a monthly flat fee for being able to process them= . A shop has told me it costs him nothing if I use a debit card.

Only seen that in charity shops here. Usually the customer then just do= nates some extra to cover it, rather than bothering to go get cash.

Why?

[Rod Speed]

You're wrong about that. When ApplePay showed up, it has a small amount for Apple and the pom banks refused to pay what the yank banks pay and ganged up on Apple and got Apple to give them a much lower charge.

You're wrong. And Aldi only pays 0.5% here and has a much smaller turnover than the 3 biggest supermarket chains here.

Nope, there is that too, but also a small charge per transaction.

It is pretty close to nothing.

We do see it with some of our equivalent of pound shops here and with the cheapest discount green grocers, usually run by Indians. Tho the latest here is happy to do it electronically for all transactions now, credit cards included.

It has to default to one or the other and surprise surprise, defaults to the one which has the higher charge.

[Rod Speed]

I said MARGINAL cost, not the total cost. The marginal cost is the extra cost of doing that particular transaction using cash instead of electronically and that?s really just the theoretically extra time to make change that isnt needed with an electronic transaction.

That?s the total cost, not the marginal cost.

Again, not a MARGINAL cost.

Again, not relevant to the marginal cost.

[gfretwell]

It is clear you never owned a business or managed labor Time is money. We had a store for a number of years and cash is time consuming. It wasn;t as bad for us as it would be for a big chain because we didn't have that much trouble with losses. My wife was the only one who would nick a $50 now and then from a pure cash transaction but it was her $50. It really just affected the tax man ;-)

[Rod Speed]

I've done both, thanks, and done the money counting at the end of the day back when there were no card at all too.

But the MARGINAL cost in time of counting just the EXTRA note that the one extra transaction added to the other cash taken isnt even a second.

Yes, but while ever ANYONE pays in cash, it still has to be done so the MARGINAL cost in time with just one more who chose to pay in cash instead of electronically isnt even a second extra time.

Yes, it takes a bit more time to make change for that transaction, but that isnt time you pay for, directly or indirectly.

Big chains use cash sorting machines.

Again, you are talking about the downsides with cash in general, not the MARGINAL cost I was talking about.

[Clare Snyder]

My debit and credit card here in Canada are separate cards - both with contactless capability as well as chip and code.

[Clare Snyder]

No, it IS the marginal cost. The EXTRA cost to use cash instead of plastic is significant in many cases Between the smart cash register and the credit card machine all the record keeping, deposits, etc are done INSTANTLY - while a cash sale still requires filling out the deposit slip, counting the cash, and dropping it off at the bank./ Can easily eat up over an hour of time that needs to be paid for.

[Clare Snyder]

When only a small percentage of business is done in cash the cash counting and depositing does not necessarily need to be done daily - and like has been mentioned, many businesses do not do ANY cash transactions. Debit or credit only.

[Rod Speed]

So are mine, but a contactless transaction is still credit by default.

Ditto.

[Rod Speed]

Nope. the marginal cost is the cost of an EXTRA cash transaction, not the cost of all cash transactions.

That's not the marginal cost of a cash transaction.

Only the cost in time of doing change with the cash transaction.

That's done anyway when there are any cash transactions.

That's done anyway when there are any cash transactions.

Yes, counting the extra note does take a fraction of a second more time, but that's all it is.

That's done anyway when there are any cash transactions.

That's done anyway when there are any cash transactions.

[Rod Speed]

Still means that the MARGINAL cost is trivial, regardless of how often its done.

There arent all that many operations that have no cash transactions at all and those that do just don't accept any cash transactions, so the marginal cost is still zero.

[Steven Watkins]

Why do you need to do that? Do you think someone might pick you up and rub you against a payment device? They're short range....

[Tim Streater]

We have been warned against scrotes who supposedly do just that. Well, they don't pick me up, they have their own devices that are more sensitive and can read your card from nearby.

[Bob Eager]

Indeed, and I have seen demonstrations of that being done. Hence I too have a screened wallet. I keep the Oyster card in an unscreened pocket on the outside of the wallet.

[Tim Streater]

I got some of these:

I decided that putting the card inside one of these is too much of a faff, but having two placed suitably inside the wallet should offer protection and meanwhile I operate the wallet as if the sleeves were not there. Simples.

[Bob Eager]

This is mine:

I also have some RFID opaque fabric if I need to protect anything else.

[Clare Snyder]

How?My debit card is not a credit card and has no connection to any credit card account. Likewise my creditt card has no connection to my bank and therefore cannot function as a debit card.

Put more simply, my credit card and debit card are issued by 2 totally different financial institutions, and neither one has any connection to the other.

So explain how my debit card is a credit card???????

[Clare Snyder]

But if they accepted even a dime of cash, the cost of handling the cash would be 100% marginal.

[Tim Streater]

Ah, I never looked for a wallet with built-in protection. It's taken me best part of 10 years to find any sort of wallet to replace the one I had, which had a decent size coin pouch. I'm not interested in one with lots of slots, pockets, window jobbies for my Metropolitan Police Warrant Card etc. Just space for notes, a few cards, and a big coin pouch.