OT. GM fuel mileage overstated

[Don Y]

The metric is "miles per GALLON (of fuel)" -- not miles per DOLLAR.

[Ed Pawlowski]

People get hung up on mpg and ignore cost to own.

The price of gas goes up so people sell the paid off gas guzzler and go into debt thousands of dollars to save $4 a week on the fuel cost.

If you drive 10,000 miles a year, at 25 mpg you'd buy 400 gallons but at

35 mpg only 285 gallons. So, you save 115 gallons. Yeah, that justifies buying a new economical car.

[rbowman]

Back in the day I recall doing 100 on the Mac and Jack Speedway (Macdonald?Cartier Freeway) and it wasn't no stinking kilometer stuff.

[rbowman]

I wouldn't call agrarian society an advance. Surplus food, surplus people, and the spare time to get up to all sorts of mischief like organized religion and constant warfare.

[rbowman]

when I first got the ScanGauge I had it in instantaneous mode. I think the injectors shut off completely when you're coasting. That mode isn't too useful in town.

[rbowman]

For the last 15 years I just buy economical cars and watch the SUVs come and go. It gives me a little tickle of Schadenfreude when I pull in and cram 8 gallons or so into the Yaris, wash the windows and plates, and check the tire pressure while the guy in the barge next to me is still pumping.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Did that on my way home tonight on the highway. On stretch at the state line has good visibility for such stuff for a couple of miles. According to my gps, the fastest was 123. No place to really let it out safely and without possible intervention.

[Don Y]

Sure, but the comments in this thread have concerned MPG. If you want to address TCO, then you have to look at cost of maintenance, insurance, registration (many places treat vehicles as "property" so a new car can cost hundreds per year to register while anolder one can cost close to nothing), etc.

You'd also have to consider opportunity costs/time value of money (that could be *growing* instead of depreciating), risk valuation (you're less likely to get dragged into a lawsuit for running over a toddler if you don't drive a car!), effect on the rest of the economy (what sort of a factor does the auto industry have on YOUR job), cost of your time (you can walk "for free"), etc.

That, of course, depends on what the gas guzzler is costing you! A 30 year old vehicle that already has high maintenance costs doesn't look any *better* when you consider its fuel economy!

It suggests you have an additional $500/year (at $4 gas) to put towards your "new" car budget. I took *my* car off the road cuz I wasn't putting

1,000 miles / year on it! I could take a cab for less money (per mile) than operate my vehicle.

[Don Y]

New cars play games shutting down cylinders when the power isn't required.

[Don Y]

+1

OTOH, also time to set up things like medical care (beyond blood letting and dancing under moonlit skies).

E.g., for the folks with both feet firmly planted in the past ("The Good Old Days"), I'd not be keen on returning to the 1950's life expectancy figures of 65/71 (M/F). The ~10 years added in the decades since represents a significant improvement, IMnsHO!

And, the police will no longer look the other way when you beat your spouse... (and it was OK for priests to abuse little boys)

[Roger Blake]

I drive a vehicle that is over 40 years old. It is not particularly good on gas but maintenance costs are very low and it is long since paid for. I'll be keeping it.

[Roger Blake]

Yeah, but those are the crappy years that come at the end. I'd go back to the 1950s in a heartbeat if it were possible. (My preferred target year would probably be more like 1960.)

[Stormin Mormon]

It's a new marketing thing. You know how Oreos went from some number, to fewer. Same with Tampax, and many other products. Kilometers are like miles, but "Miles Lite, 40% less filling". Also lower in sodium, and carbon emissions than miles.

[Stormin Mormon]

Remember, the USA has plenty of surplus to send to Russia, when they starve. And also to the African nations. Remember the TV shows with the stick figure bone and ribs children. My Dad knew and Afro American (who had blonde hair and blue eyes) who agreed that the famine was terrible. And then he commented they didn't kill off enough of them. Dad !!say what!!. The real Africans use starvation and famine as a population control. When the other tribe is over populated, send in the teens on Jeeps and AK-47 to cut off the food. Of course, the Europeans show up with cameras and food. Pay off the jeep kids, and feed the stick figures so they can grow to puberty and make more stick figures for us to feed.

[Stormin Mormon]

One of my friends comments that now days "people are too damn well fed". I asked him to expand a bit, on that. Well, when people have to work for their living, they tend to be polite, and appreciae what they have. When food is just handed to them, they tend to bicker and complain a lot. Gives them some thing to do.

Anyone remember the old episode of Andy Griffith Show where Malcolm the butler arried in town? Andy hired him at the houe. And Aunt Bee took the sick bed, and whined and complained a lot. Opie was the one who noticed, and brought the change to attention of Andy. Soon as Aunt Bee got back to her routine, the house was the cheerful same again.

[DerbyDad03]

I used to do 100+ on the Verrazano?Narrows Bridge between Brooklyn & Staten Island in NYC. I was driving a Chevy station wagon full of bagels during a short stint as a bagel delivery guy for a friend's bagel business.

The Brooklyn cops would turn back into Brooklyn on their side of the bridge and the Staten Island cops would turn around on their side. There was never a cop on the bridge unless there was an accident. At 5 AM, you usually had about 4 miles of open road to play on.

[Frank]

Doubt this is happening on the Subaru. I don't know how they can instantaneously measure mileage and would think it extremely hard to do it on fuel usage. Car also has a CVT which gives maybe an extra mpg.

[Don Y]

Mileage is a takeoff on the tranny -- count wheel rotations per unit time (or, at very low speeds, time per wheel rotation); ditto driveshaft, etc.

Fuel usage is by monitoring how *they* fire the injectors. You know how much fuel is introduced with each activation (if it wasn't predictable, the engine wouldn't run smoothly).

It will be interesting to see how their CVT holds up over time!

We liked the two Subarus we test drove. But, the "tranny hump" (where the bell housing would be on a rear-wheel drive vehicle) was too wide and encroached on the leg position for the passenger (your left foot can't be placed directly in front of your left *hip*, let alone to the *left* of it!)

[DerbyDad03]

My Odyssey *used* to do that but I've disabled it. Honda calls it Variable Cylinder Management and most Ody and Pilot drivers hate it. There was even a Class Action suit against it due to fouled spark plugs, failing motor mounts and excessive oil consumption. That is in addition to the driveabili ty issues related to vibration, stuttering, delayed accelerating, etc.

Last year a guy invented what he calls the VCMuzzler. It is nothing more than a resistor with Honda OEM connectors that you place between the Engine Coolant Temperature sensor and the ECU. It fools the ECU into thinki ng that the ECT is a few degress below the threshold required for VCM to engage. He has worked out the resistance value such that it doesn't impact the fuel mixture curve at low temps or cause a CEL.

The original version had only 1 inline resistor, but as more and more peopl e bought the device, it became apparent that different values were required based on the ambient temperature of the environment. The 2nd generation has a extra connector so that different value resistors can be tested. I've bee n running with a 100? resistor for about a year and the only time VCM ha s kicked in was when I was towing a trailer through the hills in 90° temps. The engine would heat up while climbing and the VCM would kick in as I coasted down hill. Once the engine cooled down a bit, no more VCM, so there was no impact on the driveability.

The device has thousands upon thousands of miles on it all across the country and users couldn't be happier. Many of us have had our cars inspected with the VCMuzzler installed and there has never been an issue. The fact that it is plug-and-play means that it can be removed for testing if there is any concern that it is causing an problem but I have never hear d of an single issue and I follow the forum threads on it just in case.

This video is a short (1:58) install video showing the device:

[rbowman]

Fuel flow versus speed.