OT computers

Well assuming that's true, which I doubt because every HP PC I've seen comes with the same software load, who's fault is it if you choose to buy a cheap PC instead of what I buy? If Honda has one cheap car that's no good, does that warrant saying don't ever buy a Honda? Good grief.

Reply to
trader_4
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Good grief. A MB today wouldn't even support installing the density chips you'd need to make 256MB.

If you're worried about wearing out your hard

Or just buy a basic new PC, which sounds like the solution to the OP's problem, which is a 12 year old PC with a failing disk and where he wants more performance. Why does it have to get so complicated?

Reply to
trader_4

Never had that problem here. Standard XP load was fine, for it's day. Today, not so much for a lot of reasons, including that it's EOL'd and new software won't run on it.

Then installed software

Sure, anti-virus isn't needed. More bad advice assuming it's going to be used like a typical PC.

When

A 1 ghz, 500mb XP system that is 12 years old is a joke today. My $100 cell phone has a dual core 1.6ghz cpu and

2GB of RAM.

Your option didn't address his need for more performance. You said a 12 year old 1ghz XP machine is just fine for most people today. It's not.

If he really wants to stay with what he's

He didn't say he wanted to stay with what he had.

If

Makes no sense to me when he's talking about wanting more performance, more memory, etc. And the PC he has is 12 years old.

Sure put it in a museum.

And XP EOL

It means no more security fixes, if any issues are found. It means the last IDK how many versions of Windows Explorer won't run on it, nor will an increasing amount of new software. It means that if you buy a new system now, there is a chance that the drivers for the hardware won't be there. Unless you think manufacturers of new video cards, new video chips, etc are testing, certifying them, issuing fixes, etc for an OS that is EOL.

I run XP with SP3 but don't -- and

Gee, there's a clue. So, why are you talking about 500MB?

Win32 can only use a bit over 3 GB, and 2 GB

Feel free to pull out some chips.

Unbelievable.

Reply to
trader_4

You are opinionated to the point of arrogance...people have their own valid remarks to make! Yours' isn't the be-all, end-all last word on anything!

Reply to
Bob_Villa

I never said it was. You claimed that all HP's come loaded with crapware. I have two of them, all I said was that it's not true because mine only came with Norton and some HP utilities, none of which are intrusive. None of which are popping up ads, or anything like that. And I said that I'm very happy with my HP's.

YOU then replied with:

"Most people have brand loyalty not matter how irrational it may be...you may drive a Chrysler branded vehicle that is majority owned by Fiat. Dell,HP/Compaq,Acer/Gateway,Lenovo, all sell entry level PC's...and they all come with a certain amount of "crapware" (or limited use programs) that subsidizes the lowest price!"

So, who exactly is it that's arrongant and only think their answer is the be-all, end-all? You're saying that I have brand loyalty on an irrational basis. Besides that, I say you're full of crap. Because I have the HP's and I don't believe you do. And now it's shifted from HP's have crapware to just "entry level" PCs do. I think you're full of crap, but even if it's true, it doesn't make all HP's unacceptable and if you bought a cheap one that's subsidized with adware from whoever, who's fault is that?

Reply to
trader_4

There are a very few sincere people on this list, and we are three of them.

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

I had a rough time trying to find SP3, it's "for network professionals". From experience, don't go to the web for sp3, you'll get some thing that kills your computer. DAMHIKT.

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

Sorry, I'll do better.

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

Computers of that age have another common failure mode that slows them to a crawl - leaky caps. Take a good look at all the electrolytic caps on the motherboard. They all have score marks in the end. If the end is convex instead of flat or slightly concave, the cap has failed. The K marked caps are generally less likely to fail than the X marked ones, for some reason.

You CAN replace the caps with new Low ESR caps to salvage an otherwise good board but at $2 and change a piece for the caps,I often question if it is worth while. Generally 1000 and 1500 mfd caps in 10 and 16 volt DC ratings - minimum 85C temp rating. Using 16 and 25 volt caps extends the life if you have the physical space on the board.

Reply to
clare

Virtual XP IS a VM. It comes standard on Win7 Pro, and can be downloaded for free from Microsoft if you need it on a "lesser" OS.

Personally, I ALWAYS buy Pro, so it's not an issue for me (I need the network capability of Pro - lesser OS cannot join a domain)

Reply to
clare

It is still available - I downloaded and installed it last week to resurrect a little Toshibba Portege R200.

You DO need to make sure you are only downloading SP3 and not 1001 other programs the download sites try to stuff in on you.

Reply to
clare

Where did you find it? On MSFT website?

Reply to
trader_4

How does a bad cap slow it to a crawl? The caps are there to smoooth out the power, no? I can see a bad cap causing it to freeze, or not boot, but how does it wind up slowing it down?

Reply to
trader_4

You can download XP SP3 directly from Microsoft right here:

formatting link

Sheesh.

Reply to
Moe DeLoughan

Bingo. A lot of electronics retailers and electronics recycling companies sell refurbished second-hand pcs dirt cheap. These are usually off-lease business models. A guy I know recently replaced his ancient XP box with a refurbed IBM-era Lenovo running Win 7 Pro from Microcenter. A big improvement over what he'd had, for only $130.00.

Speaking of which, searching the inventory of retailers such as Microcenter will still find new pcs running Win 7. In fact, a quick check of Microcenter's website just turned up more than two dozen Win

7 desktop models. So if you really don't want to wrestle with Win 8 (and I can't blame you), you can still choose new and get an OS that doesn't require completely relearning how to use the pc.
Reply to
Moe DeLoughan

Bullshit.

Maybe if you only load XP and then never do a thing on it. Otherwise, that is turtle time.

You want decent performance, you need more RAM.

The biggest mistake people make is to view a computer as if it is a major appliance. Sure, ovens and fridges don't change much over time, so they'll still perform their basic functions just fine even when newer models are on the market. But computers are dynamic devices. The software and peripherals that run on/with them are constantly changing. They gradually lose efficiency, and eventually lose compatibility. At some point, they won't be good for much anymore. Bite the bullet and upgrade.

Reply to
Moe DeLoughan

Can you clarify how a leaky cap will "slow them to a crawl"?

If the PLL controlling the clock signal doesn't lock at the target frequency, the processor will never leave reset. I suppose that qualifies as "slow", for some value of "slow".

Reply to
Scott Lurndal

A VM (Virtual Machine) is a "container" that appears to software as if it were running on bare-metal. The "container" usually runs under an hypervisor (or an existing OS that has hypervisor functionality). Common hypervisors include VMWare and Xen (Citrix), and both Windows and Linux have hypervisor functionality using HyperV and KVM (kernel Virtual machine) respectively.

All modern processors (Intel, PowerPC, ARM, Itanium, PARISC, et alia) have hardware support for virtualization to make virtualization significantly more efficient than if the processor didn't have the extra support (often implemented via an additional privilege level, more privileged than the the operating systems being virtualized (SVM on AMD, VT-X on Intel, Exception Level 2 on ARMv8)).

Any x86 operating system can be run in a x86 Virtual Machine (VM) including MsDOS, OS/2, Linux, Windows XP, Windows 7, Windows 8, etc.

Some of us build very large, very fast, very expensive computers for a living. Some of us even write hypervisors for a living.

Reply to
Scott Lurndal

| > But XP is zippy on old hardware, and does just fine with 256 | > MB RAM for most uses.) | | Bullshit. |

Interesting reasoning. :)

| The biggest mistake people make is to view a computer as if it is a | major appliance. Sure, ovens and fridges don't change much over time, | so they'll still perform their basic functions just fine even when | newer models are on the market. But computers are dynamic devices. The | software and peripherals that run on/with them are constantly | changing. They gradually lose efficiency, and eventually lose | compatibility. At some point, they won't be good for much anymore.

In practice that's often true, and in Jerry's case it might be easiest to just buy a new machine, especially considering how cheap they are now. But if you know how to re-install the system and manage your software -- or if you have a friend who can help -- then there's no reason to have the problems you describe. Software doesn't "lose efficiency", and most people rarely if ever change their software. But if you don't manage startup programs, if you allow browser toolbars to be installed, etc then the system will get bogged down.

I was working on a friend's PC just yesterday. He had wanted to download an audio file. The only option was iTunes. In order to download he had to install the iTunes software. For one audio file he ended up with *4* nonsense Apple programs running at startup. Most people don't understand about such things. Even if the Apple installer provided a choice about installing their junk (which I doubt) my friend would have just gone along with the suggested default install, as most people do. That's the kind of thing that causes what appears to you to be ageing and "lost efficiency".

So there might be a question as to whether it's feasible for Jerry to "revivify" his old PC. But it probably is a realistic option. I stress this point because I think it's a shame that people waste so much money out of ignorance. I've got a number of PCs that I hold onto in case someone needs one. I get them from people who think the way you do: Their system gets mucked up, they think it must be dying of old age, they go and buy another PC, then they give the old one to me for parts. I do a factory restore in 30 minutes (which most PCs can do) and I've got a PC as fresh as the day it was bought.... in most cases still far more powerful than the person in question actually needs.

Reply to
Mayayana

Really? People don't change software? Not in my experience. Who for example is still using the same version of a web browser from 12 years ago? And for what? A browser from back them would be incompatible with most websites today. Try to open a new document with Adobe Reader that's 12 years old, play a newly created video with a 12 year old video player app, etc. It's rarely going to work. Software is constantly evolving. You can almost always open an old file with the new app, but not vice versa.

But if you don't manage startup

Perfect example of why new software gets installed all the time.

For one audio file

That can certainly contribute to decreased performance, sure. But it still doesn't mean that a 12 year old XP machine is up to what most people typically want or find acceptable today for their PC. And if he wants to stick with XP, he's going to find less and less software that runs on it. If he uses Windows Explorer, IDK when the last version was that runs on XP. It's sure not the last couple versions, so he can expect increasing compatibility trouble there. I'm sure someone will say he can use some other browser, which is true, but it's an example of the kind of frustration,work arounds etc that are going to become more common with an EOL OS.

Reply to
trader_4

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