OT. Computer controlled

Most obvious examples are software, surgery, most medical services, even just looking after senile geriatrics in nursing homes, running most small businesses, etc etc etc.

In fact factory workers are a trivial part of the workforce today and those arent anything like well paid good jobs anyway.

Wrong given how few factory workers there are anymore.

Reply to
Rod Speed
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What I said. And you don't need 2 given how easy it is to get another in the unlikely even one does die.

More fool you, for most that is what they are.

Bullshit.

The phone is just I/O.

Even sillier than you usually manage and that's saying something.

Reply to
Rod Speed

Mechanics today change tires and brakes, replace worn suspension parts, and chase down electrical gremlins - and with Hybrid cars the brakes last a WHOLE LOT longer too. Where mechanics used to change exhaust systems every year or so, and shock absorbers every 25000 miles +/-, points and condenser and plugs once a year, and headlights every year or two, today's cars often end up in the scrapyard with 300000 miles (half a million Km) with the factory exhaust intact - and often with the factory installed suspension struts still operational. The ignition systems routinely last the life of the car, with plugs replaced 3 times over the extended lifetime of the vehicle. It is not unheard of for a car to reach 10 years of age without a single bulb requiring replacement.

Transmissions were routinely rebuild in well under 1000,000 miles - now it is common for them to still be fully functional when the vehicle is scrapped with 300,000 miles on the clock. Ask a mechanic when he last re-ringed an engine, or replaced engine bearings. - or did a valve job.

Automotive machine shops are virtually non-existant in today's marketplace - and the average fleet age is the oldest it has been in history - In 2017 the AVERAGE was 11.7 years. Fully 39% of the American private vehicle fleet was over 11 years of age in 2013 compared to 8% in 1970. The portion 6-10 years old is virtually unchanged from 1970 to 2013 - running 29-31%. Fuel mileage over that timeframe has improved from an average of 13 to 22.6MPG (American) The AVERAGE car sees over 165000 miles over the first 10 years of it's life, and the odometers of cars in the scrapyards for other than severe collision damage are routinely well over 200,000 miles (over

300,000km in Canada is not uncommon) The average car owner keeps his vehicle (either new or used) for about 6 years.(71.4 months) and trades it at around 150,000km (first owner)
Reply to
Clare Snyder

And network failure is even more common than either computer hardware OR software failures. WHen a computer can't access it's centrally located data bank it is pretty much "dead in the water" - and the "cloud" makes this even more critical.

Reply to
Clare Snyder

Even GOOD web programming is above the capability of many so-called web developers. (look at the predominance of "template" websites "developed" using 3rd or 4th generation "program languages" and web-building "apps"

Reply to
Clare Snyder

...

And, that's _precisely_ the problem -- that's a sizable fraction of the population of previous jobs that have been displaced with little to replace that your "plenty" needs to address--which as trader4 notes, it really doesn't for the population in need...

--

Reply to
dpb

...

Which is why I use the local Sonic -- they still have the car hops (and many still wear their roller (now blades instead of) skates...HS kids need a summer job, too...I'll do my part to try to keep tradition going.

Reply to
dpb

Where a small town often had 3 or 4 independent auto REPAIR shops and

3 or 4 dealerships many towns of up to 6000 people today have mabee ONE independent shop - and NO dealerships,

The independents are one or 2 man shops - ant the dealer has 3 or 4 mechanics and a few carwash/tire techs.

Try to find a "service station" that can patch a tire or replace a fanbelt or rad hose - muchless do real repairs. They don't exist.

Get into the large cities and you see a few more of each - and MANY of the "independents" are so-called mechanics who specialize in keeping the older fleet on the road by replacing engines and transmissions with used parts sourced from the auto recycling yards - and would be TOTALLY incapable of repairing the engine or transmission. Some of them are very "resourcefull" having been "trained" in eastern europe or central america or the middle east - and they often operate as smalltime "used car lots" as well.

Dealerships? You can shoot a cannon through virtually any Toyota, KIa, Honda, or hyundai dealer for 3 out of every 8 hours, three or more days a week without hitting anything. The Ford dealers are a bit buisier, with Chrysler and GM , nissan, Mazda, VW, BMW, and Mercedes a bit busier. (dispite the fact they sell fewer cars)

The pay rate for mechanics in Ontario is virtually unchanged over the last 15 years or more - averaging about $20 per hour - or about $41000 per year. My final year in the trade - 1989 - I made $40,000. - that's

30 years. - and there are a LOT FEWER mechanics working today - partly for that reason
Reply to
Clare Snyder

On 7/27/2019 2:50 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote: ...

Yeah, that's another symptom of the "Google it" syndrome where everything is so automated many don't understand much about what they do any more...they simply follow computerized instructions and if that fails, then they're almost completely lost w/ no basic fundamental knowledge to rely on for troubleshooting. Of course, when everything is buried in the firmware, there's not a whole lot an ordinary VOM is going to tell you about much of what's going on...or isn't as the case may be.

Try to find a HS kid who can actually add and subtract and make change without a calculator to tell him what the answer is--different symptom same problem.

Reply to
dpb

On 7/27/2019 3:47 PM, Clare Snyder wrote: ...

Speaking of GM...

'99 truck--ignition key getting where have to fiddle with it extensively to find the "sweet spot" so can turn it...not sure if have a less-worn key for it or not; it was used and don't even remember if I got more than one at the time. At least preliminary looking hasn't turned it up...

This is one of the "same both sides" keys looks like Ford of the '50s/60s instead of traditional GM key all used to.

Q? is, you have experience to predict is it the key just worn or the locking mechanism itself or both?

Reply to
dpb

In the late 1960's I bagged groceries . The cashregister operator had to key in each item and make change. They had a certain way of counting the money back to you . They started with the price of the item and counted the change back so it added up to the amount given them.

In most places I go to , they just say your change is so much and hand it all to you in one handfull. Coins and paper.

Reply to
Ralph Mowery

Still plenty of good well paying jobs in programming anyway.

< or H1B visa holders who will work for half of what you make.

Irrelevant to whether there are plenty of good well paying jobs in programming.

Reply to
Rod Speed

That's clearly bullshit given the unemployment rate there.

Reply to
Rod Speed

Who are a trivial part of society. And those with half a clue still have a very decent quality of life, including the two of those operations that I use to sign off on the fact that my car is still fit to drive every time I have to renew the registration.

Yes, there are certainly fewer of them now, but they were mostly doing pretty mundane and boring work in those days and don't have to do that anymore with much better car designs now.

Irrelevant to the quality of life being discussed.

Its nothing like that here.

They arent succeeding in doing that.

In fact modern cars are so well designed that you hardly ever need to use that stuff anymore. I never had even a single warranty fault or any other fault in the 13 years I have had my current car from new so didn't need anything like that.

Bullshit it does when you don't need a computer to tell you what the problem is with most current faults and a code scanner works fine for most of the non obvious faults.

Bullshit it does when you don't need any test equipment to tell you what the problem is with most current faults and a code scanner works fine for most of the non obvious faults.

You don't need fancy test equipment with most outboard motor and lawnmower faults.

Reply to
Rod Speed

There are at least 15 independent shops within 2 mile radius of my home. Some are "specialty" shops. One does supercharging and turbo installations for the "tuner" crowd - started as a car sterio shop. At least 2 specxialize in older high end German cars - another specializes in VW. Another is a Porsche / Audi specialist. There are several that do restoration work. The rest are an assortment of good general repair shops and one man hackers. Most are one or 2 man shops.

Then there are the "chain" shops like Meineke, KAL Tire, Speedy, Beverley Tire, Green and Ross, and other "tire" "Brake" and "muffler" shops and "transmission shops" - all of which offer "general repairs" as well - precious few of which I would trust with a kids Kiddie Car.

The days of independents servicing anything that drove by ARE pretty much finished

Reply to
Clare Snyder

The total cost of parts replaced on my 1996 Ranger - over it's

368000km life - not counting tires - is less than $2000. Add another $1500 for rubber.

Most "auto parts stores" here sell more in parts than accessories - mabee not a whole lot more - to the general public - but they sell a lot of parts to general repair shops AND dealers.

Reply to
Clare Snyder

A dealer should locate the problem in less than 3 days - generally less than 3 hours. If you had just paid for the $500 sensor in the first place you would likely have saved the 3 weeks and a few hundred bucks.

Reply to
Clare Snyder

On 7/27/2019 6:50 PM, Rod Speed wrote: ...

Excepting the "unemployment rate" is doctored to only count those actually in the job market....those who've given up aren't in the figures so actual number of unemployed (U-6) is over double the commonly-reported (U-3) number.

Last I saw for this calendar year, U-3 ("classic" Dept of Labor number in newspapers was 4.0% while U-6 (counting those who haven't actively searched in 4 weeks and part-time wanting full-time employment) was 8.1%.

With a total workforce by that definition of roughly 165M, you're talking 13.4M needing fulltime work.

And, even U-6 doesn't count the inner city chronically unemployed in the labor force...estimates there top 10M more.

Reply to
dpb

Does they key operate the door lock? If yes, chances are good it's the ignition cyl. If no, most likrly the key. Pull the cyl and take it to a good locksmith and they can solve the problem - either way - or just buy a set ov cyls and fix it yourself. Likely about the same price.

Reply to
Clare Snyder

That, of course, is the proper way to count change.

Yeah, after the computer tells them what it is...many can't even count it out without difficulty if there isn't a change dispenser.

Reply to
dpb

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