OT Big trucks w/crip plates

That's a big brush you are using. Not on your list, but not a distraction is a backup camera. Won't buy another car without one.

Other upgrades are better instruments, shifting, steering wheel controls, heated seats, lighting options, remote start. I don't see them as distractions.

You are describing ANY 2x half-ton pickup. Without some weight in the bed they are very light on the rear end. At least the suburban has some weight back there. You are also grossly exaggerating the handling characteristic s. That you can't drive one like a sports car and are thereby disappointed only shows you don't understand the purpose for which they were built.

It's a WORK truck, not a play-toy although I see way too many 4xs that are bought as, and treated like, play toys.

Harry K

Granted but that has zippo to do with driving on the road.

Heated seats perhaps. Rest of those are either pretty standard for all models in a line. Steerign controls change only to add "play toys", remote start has zippo to do with driving,

To each his own. I know people (way too many) blowing 40-60 thousand on 4x SUVs and trucks with no intention of ever using 4x or hauling anything but people.

Harry K

Being a politician is a handicap - mental illness that craves power. Are they sociopaths, psycholpaths or both?

On Sat, 1 Feb 2014 14:10:39 -0800 (PST), Harry K wrote in

Even if the disabled person is the passenger, he/she still has to get in.

At least now, they tend to come with upgraded radio or even navi. The display doesn't just do one thing.

Upgraded carpeting (the base, and even the next level (SLX?) are pretty spartan.

Not so.

SUVs are intended to haul people. I "blew" half that on my F150 and it wasn't base, by any means. Sure, it was possible to spend that much but not necessary to have some fairly nice features. If I'm going to drive it for ten years, or more (last truck was 13 years), I'll spend a little on some niceties.

That's an exaggeration. My 2013 was pretty good in the Atlanta ice the other day. The back end never came loose. Yeah, if I still lived in Vermont, I would have paid the extra $2000 for 4WD. My Ranger was

I bought mine because I'm always doing something around the house. Cars just don't cut it if you're a DIY homeowner.

The Element drivers I see here are much younger, typically young families.

Pure unadulterated ugly?

Per Harry K:

I agree 100% - and my expectations are correspondingly low.

But it's still the worst handling vehicle I've ever owned.

That doesn't make it intrinsically "bad". It is what it is and I can deal with that. "Horses for courses".

Per snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz:

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that is the target market

Something that is easy to get in and out of without bumping one's head and which has reasonable interior room.

With American cars, I'm starting to suspect that designers believe people will feel insecure with too much room inside. They build these quite-large cars (the wife's Malibu comes to mind) and then build out the interior so there's hardly any room - not to mention the ludicrous lack of headroom.

An acquaintance has a pickup, a wheelchair, and no legs below the knees. I think he had amputations due to diabetes. There is an electric hoist in the pickup bed to load/unload the chair. I've never seen him get in or out of the pickup so can't answer how he does it.

My thinking too. I drive about 22k miles a year so I want to make my time as comfy as possible. I like the XM radio too.

I paid for XM for my wife's '14 Mustang. We intend to use it for trips, where XM excels. I didn't renew the subscription for the F150 because I normally use it to go to the BORG and back and forth to work. I generally listen to news/talk on those trips. I can use my iPod if I need to go longer. OTOH, they've offered my 50% off (pay for six months, get 12) so I might bite. After you let the subscription lapse, they start offering better deals.

Are you 6'6"?

I live in snow country up in Washington and have never had a 4x. Always go t where I am need to using winter tires. I also heat with wood (6 cord or more/yr) cut my own, Every _needed_ 4x? A couple times. Had to call a to w to get me unstuck once, thought I would have to again but after 1/2 hours work packing brush got out. Othere than that once.

As for truck driving characteristics he is most definitely exaggerating wit h a possible exception. My first truck was a badly used F250 with very wid e tires (definitely not OEM). It was 'squirrely' even on dry pavement. I change them back to normal size almost immediately - problem solved.

Harry K

ed they are very light on the rear end. At least the suburban has some wei ght back there. You are also grossly exaggerating the handling characteris tics. That you can't drive one like a sports car and are thereby disappoin ted only shows you don't understand the purpose for which they were built.

re bought as, and treated like, play toys.

That wouild be a work truck then. I have a stock of firewood now that will last me the rest of the time I have but will still always have a work truc k to haul stuff a car, van or SUV can't. Even when I cut, the only time th e truck moves is if it will be hauling something (trash, recycle, yard wast e, etc).

Harry K

Yeah, they've caught college athletes using handicap hang tags around here. Culture of entitlement.

Per snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz:

Was in the service with a guy who, by all indications, has the exact same body as Kmart's size medium clothing dummy. It was amazing: he always looked like he was wearing custom-tailored clothes.