He's only trying to plug a hole the "right way." Nothing wrong with that. I think it's a bit impractical, but that's just my opinion. And I don't agree with your "criminal negligence charges" for plugging a tire. A tire plug is a simple repair. Might as well say you can't work on your suspension or gas tank or electrical system.
Vic Smith wrote, on Thu, 10 Dec 2015 12:44:01 -0600:
The point here is to learn.
It's sort of like a biology lab.
Nobody forces you to cut open a pig, but, we all cut open pigs and frogs and shrarks to study them.
That's sort of why I'm doing this. (The tire is ruined already anyway, because I drove on it for about a mile, assuming, wrongly, that it still had enough air.)
Today I went to a few shops but I had to do other errands.
So far I've second sourced the first two of the three fluids.
If you don't make any money on the tire sale you have to keep the lights on doing the mounting.
Saving a few bucks is good, but it can be false economy at times. Our town is fortunate to have a good family owned tire dealer that has fair prices and incredible service. I know many customers that won't go anyplace else and have a story about how Dennis helped them out with a tire problem.
clare wrote, on Thu, 10 Dec 2015 17:22:36 -0500:
I think you totally missed the point. The tire is already ruined because I drove on it. Nothing I do to it will ruin it any more.
However, I can experiment on this tire, so that I can see how the entire patch process works.
Remember what this group is all about. It's not a ladies' knitting group you know.
So, we're not afraid to wind our own garage door springs. We're not afraid to replace our own struts. And, we're not afraid to patch our tires correctly.
You seem to know a lot, which means that you know the average fool is too stupid to patch their tires correctly.
But, the rest of us aren't average fools! (pun intended).
At this point, I'm working on *what* exactly the carbide bit does. This bit looks nothing like the spiral reamer that comes with the el cheapo outside plug kits.
The carbide bit, I think, is supposed to smooth the sharp edges of the cut belts.
Do you concur? Or is there a *different* reason for the carbide bit?
clare wrote, on Thu, 10 Dec 2015 17:09:54 -0500:
Darn. Someone said it was MEK.
That was good to hear because MEK is easy to come by. But, if it's not MEK, then we have to start anew to figure out what it is that we can find in a common hardware store.
Makes sense not to want to melt the rubber. How does 500 RPM sound for speed?
I have seen those half-round grinding disks which seem like a nice thing to have in my toolbox for cleaning the inside of the tire.
Googling to see the box store equivalents, it seems that Naptha isn't sold at Home Depot, but it is sold at Lowes:
LOWES: Crown 1-Gallon Slow to Dissolve Naphtha Item #: 206531 | Model #: CR.VM.M.41
Are you sure the prebuff solvent is naptha, and not MEK?
Interesting idea!
This makes sense, especially since you already have the glue on hand, and, as noted by someone, the remainder of the glue will likely dry well before you ever get to use it again, so, you may as well use it up.
Depends on the research. They have a financial interest in anything that results in them selling more tires in total or more tires then the competition. Competing is hard, getting the gvt to mandate something stupid so you can make more money just takes a few lobbyists and greasing some palms.
Tekkie® wrote, on Thu, 10 Dec 2015 17:19:10 -0500:
I know this was directed at someone else, but, let's remind ourselves this isn't the ladies' knitting group.
We're here to learn how to repair things, and, in this case, what we want to learn is the proper way for a homeowner to repair a car tire that has a puncture wound.
So far, we have learned a *lot* (at least "I" have), as I have read the wrong way and the right way to repair the tires.
The only thing I don't have are the 5 tools and the 3 fluids, so, my quest right now is simply to find homeowner-style alternatives.
One could rightly say just buy the right tools & fluids, but, you have to realize that we're only going to repair one tire every few years, so, we really need to be smarter than that.
Sure, it's *easy* to buy exactly the professional tools, but, if we're smart, we can buy the fluids and tools and be able to use them for other things.
For example, of the three fluids, we seem to know at this point:
clare wrote, on Thu, 10 Dec 2015 16:24:36 -0500:
This isn't the ladies' knitting group. Nothing has been patched yet. This is a *discussion*.
What we're seeking is a second source for the fluids used in tire repair. If you think that these fluids are *super special*, then you have a different opinion than I do.
I *assume* (yes, I know) that these three fluids are commonly available. I'm just trying to find out *what* they are.
You would probably say "just buy the professional stuff" and that *might* actually be the best answer. But, oftentimes the best answer, for a homeowner, is to use the same fluid, but packaged for the homeowner.
For example, if the pre-buff fluid is either MEK or Naptha (as has been opined so far), both are easily available at Lowes.
The sealer is the trickier fluid to figure out what it is, since that is the fluid that protects the inner seal.
This is interesting. You have far more experience than I do, so I greatly appreciate your advice. Today I stopped off at Costco to see what they use, and they showed me a can of their stuff, which they use as part of the final repair. But I don't know what other shops use.
The trick now is to figure out *what* that tar-like substance is made up of, to see if we can find a second source in the home box stores.
clare wrote, on Thu, 10 Dec 2015 16:26:28 -0500:
This is an interesting trick.
Seems to me, the goal of the pre-buff solvent is to dissolve a thin skin of the inner liner, so that we're down to a different layer of rubber for the patch to adhere to.
What I like about this trick is that it negates the need for the pre-buff solution, although if the pre-buff solution is Naptha or MEK, it's easy to come by in the home box stores.
So, the real trick will be to find a substitute for the final inner liner sealer.
Ashton is about the only guy cheaper and less intelligent than DannyBoy on this group. I plonked him a long time ago so only see his crap when someone answers him.
clare wrote, on Thu, 10 Dec 2015 17:02:14 -0500:
Naptha is easy to come by, so, that would be good news.
Heptane should also be easy to come by, so that would be good news.
Interestingly, one of the videos I posted said to not coat the stem of the patchplug with the glue. The other one didn't mention whether or not the stem (near the head of the patchplug) should be coated.
Do you lean toward putting the cement on the stem of the patchplug?
AMuzi wrote, on Thu, 10 Dec 2015 10:17:26 -0600:
This isn't the ladies' knitting group. This is a repair and tech group.
If we don't know the exact chemicals used in the three fluids, then we have no business being *on* this newsgroup.
Likewise, if we don't know the purpose of the five tools used in a decent patch repair, then we can't call ourselves all that knowledgeable.
None of us are born with this knowledge, but, those of you with experience can help impart your knowledge on the rest of us.
clare wrote, on Thu, 10 Dec 2015 17:25:31 -0500:
I think naptha is fine.
Lowes has it by the gallon.
What I'm trying to source now is that final goopy tar sealant.
Any ideas what it's made up of?
If someone who is not a licenced machanic does repairs on a car and those repairs cause a fatal or serious injury accident he CAN be charged with criminal negligence or criminal negligence causing death.
Tires are one of the most critical safety items on a car - along with brakes and steering. Anyone who has to ask numerous times for information about doing those jobs, and then totally ignores advice from "professionals" with decades of experience should most definitely NOT be working on those parts of a car - and if he does, and causes serious injury or death - he is guilty of at least terminal stupidity if not criminal negligence. Too bad stupidity isn't illegal.
At least unlike genius, stupidity is ultimately self limiting.
clare wrote, on Thu, 10 Dec 2015 17:04:29 -0500:
This isn't the ladies' knitting group.
If we can't wind our own garage door springs, install our own struts, and patch our own tires, we shouldn't be on this newsgroup.
Nobody is born knowing this stuff, so, all I ask is that those of you who know what you're doing, just help out the rest of us to learn.
I already know *exactly* how to perform a proper repair. I know the tools. I know the fluids.
Now I'm thinking the fluids because most of these fluids are not
*special* to tires is my thinking.Maybe I'm wrong. But I doubt it.
For example, if the prebuff is Naptha, that's *easy* to come by. The one fluid I don't know the composition of is the final sealer.
Any idea what that final sealer is made out of?
It is to clean/debride the inside of the puncture to allow the patch to vulcanize properly as well as handling the steel belts. HOWEVER- there are many punctures that do not break the steel cord - and then using a carbide to "cut" the cord is counterproductive.
clare wrote, on Thu, 10 Dec 2015 17:17:09 -0500:
Ah. Butyl Rubber is what the inner tire rubber is made out of. Hydro treated heavy paraffin petroleum distillates? Hmmmm... that sounds like "tar".
Carbon black & di(benzothiazol-2-yl) disulphide sounds like the vulcanization process all by itself.
Zinc oxide? Hmmm... I wonder what that does? Butyl rubber resin? I guess that's the final "varnish" on the top.
If it's *that* complex, then that means we'll never find a suitable replacement in the box stores.
Like I said, this isn't the ladies' knitting newsgroup. We can *think* things through here.
I already know *exactly* how to do it right. I'm just thinking it further through, from the standpoint of a non professional, who will only be doing the job once every few years, so, essentially, all the fluids will be used only once.
They'll be dry before they ever get used again, so, that's why it's a good idea to second source the fluids, if it's possible.
It looks like two of the three fluids are easy to come by:
Vic Smith wrote, on Thu, 10 Dec 2015 16:52:02 -0600:
Exactly my point. This isn't the ladies' knitting group.
This is what we talk about.
In this case, we (at least "I") have learned *how* to perform a proper punctured tire repair.
Remember when everyone said we couldn't choose different sized garage door torsion springs and install them ourselves? Well, as you know, I've done about a dozen since then, and with the right supplier (Dan at DDM Doors!), it's *easy* and practical to replace our crappy 10K cycle torsion springs with 70K cycle springs, for less than the cost of a professional repair with the crappy springs. The only special tool needed is a steel bar, but, you must know what you're doing (because you can kill yourself).
This isn't any different a quest. I've already proven it is practical to mount and balance your own tires. I've done five of them (actually six, because I did an SUV tire also).
They balanced perfectly with a static balancer and with meticulous match mounting on the rim. Maybe I was lucky, or, maybe I was just meticulous, but, it's practical since it pays for itself in the very first job.
I'm just trying to find out if a proper home repair of a punctured tire is practical.
Hence, that's why I'm trying to source the three fluids at a home box store (two of the three fluids seem easily sourced).
Then I will try to source the tools, most importantly that carbide bit.
Does anyone know where we can get a carbide bit for the tires at the home box stores?
Ed Pawlowski wrote, on Thu, 10 Dec 2015 20:51:09 -0500:
Just to let folks know, Wheel Works, here in California, will patch the tires properly and rebalance the wheel and even remount it on the car, for free.
So, if the tire had not been ruined, that's the most cost effective way to go.
You get a perfectly safe patch for free.
clare wrote, on Thu, 10 Dec 2015 21:25:27 -0500:
Hmmmmmmm.... that's interesting.
How can a puncture *not* break the steel cord?
HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.