On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 09:44:26 -0600, Steve Barker wrote:
I'm going to see what Dan Musick thinks - I hope he responds
to my email on Monday.
I see three options at the moment:
a) Shore up the bracket (somehow) to that it doesn't move
b) Add a nylon bushing or steel bearing & see if that helps
c) Convert the one spring to a two-spring system
Thanks for the advice of the priorities.
One thing I tried today was MEASURING how much the spring
grew to the left when I installed it.
So I unwound it - and measured the growth to be 2 1/4 inches:
One 'complication' is that I do NOT understand WHY the Dan Musick
instructions say to add an extra 1/4 inch to the normal growth
of the spring AFTER it has been wound the extra 7 turns.
I 'think' I might have pushed the spring out MORE than 1/4 inch
when following those directions (although I don't understand them).
Do you know why Dan suggests adding the extra 1/4 inch?
Here are Dan's instructions:
Notice step #72 (actually #70 to #73).
I don't understand why we need to "GROW" the spring any more
than it grows on its own (and I wonder if I grew it too much)???
On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 00:16:51 +0000, Danny D. wrote:
I just realized I have about an extra inch of leeway by pushing the
hollow rod left or right BEFORE I mount the spring.
However, I'm a bit confused which way (left or right) would be
best to push the rod by that inch before I put the spring on.
It's new to me that the rod moves back and forth side to side,
and I'm not sure why we move the spring left after it grows,
so it's kinda confusing to me which way will put the least
side-to-side stress on the bracket.
On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 03:26:18 +0000, Danny D. wrote:
Upon closer inspection, I think the rod does NOT move!
I took my torsion spring off yet again, and moved both
cable drums inward a bit and tested it out and it STILL
bent the spring end plate when the door opened.
Here is a video showing the spring end plate in action:
And, notice how loose my end bearing plates appear to be:
Using a hammer and nail, I found there is NO STUD underneath
not only the spring end plate mounting bolts, but also no
stud underneath the cable drum mounting points above the door!
Here is a view of the right side end plate problem:
And, here is a view of the left side end plate problem:
Methinks this garage door was badly hung - but it lasted for
decades - so it should be relatively easy to repair.
I just got off the phone with Dan of DDM Doors (he's a saint!)
who said that the ONLY way that the spring end plate could be
moving like that was if the two bearing end plates were allowing
it to move.
So, he said, I can secure the spring end plate, but that
in and of itself would NOT solve my problem:
Here is a picture of the spring end plate logistics:
I have to secure the bearing end plates:
Dan is going to send me some parts for me to do the job right.
I'll let you know what happens - but I wish I really better
understood what is making the spring end plate move like that!
See this picture which shows the geometries:
I'd agree with you that moving the spring mount bracket LEFT
18" works best because it leaves room to add a second spring
(if needed, later).
Moving the bracket right 12" doesn't allow for the second spring.
However, moving the bracket left only leaves me about 8 inches
before the spring hits the cable drum. (Keep in mind my new 0.250"
spring is 10 inches longer than the old 0.234" spring.)
I wish I knew. As far as I can tell, there is NOTHING behind
the sheetrock. I punched fifteen 3-inch long nail holes into
the sheetrock and the only thing I ran into was the two
studs mentioned above.
There is no header. I would have expected a huge beam above
the garage door - but I am strongly suspecting there is a
steel beam at the ceiling level instead.
Look at this picture. Look at the very top right of the pic:
Do you see those four huge nuts? I think that's a beam.
You guys know better than I how they build these things.
But it sure looks like there isn't any wooden header!
What do you think those four bolts are way up at the top?
Could be. Unfortunately, the picture doesn't show but barely any of the
area of interest. Would be easier to diagnose if actually had an area
in the picture of interest and perhaps the outside and another w/ the
door open looking at the opening overhead...
If you look closely, you can see where I still have nails in
the gypsum board to the right of the right end bearing plate.
I also left the nails in the stud I found a foot to the right
of the spring end plate and another stud a foot and a half to
the left of that spring end plate.
Those are the only studs I have to tie to.
I have no idea what the four nuts are in the top near the ceiling
but I have to assume there is a steel beam at that level.
You don't show that you tried at the elevation of the (presumed) beam at
the level between the bolts to determine if, indeed it does span the
opening (can almost guarantee it does but it would tell a lot if you
knew that for certain).
It appears to me they spanned the opening at that level below the
trusses/joists and then just infilled the opening above the door w/
conventional framing. I also presume there are complementary bolts on
the other end hidden by the storage platform????
I've not read this thread--wo I don't know what you're attempting to
accomplish here on this part...if you're trying to center up the
mounting hardware, as Oren says just pull everything down out of the
way, open up the cavity and add blocking as needed then reinstall
You don't seem to hear the answer--open up enough of the cavity to put
in sufficient blocking where it needs to be and then go on.
You _could_ use like 3/16 steel plates mounted on the surface at the top
and bottom and mount the hardware on them but overall it's likely
simpler to just add the blocking.
With the new longer spring, there is only about 8 inches of clearance
to the cable drum if I move the spring mount bracket to the LEFT by
18 inches to be on a cripple stud - but that should be enough clearance.
That's a good idea. I'll wait for Dan Musick's part to arrive from
DDM Garage Doors before taking the next step - but I have to remove
everything anyway to put the new spring bearing in so that's when
I'll do it.
I agree. I wish I had looked at the bending of the spring end
bracket BEFORE it broke ... to see if the thicker longer spring
made any difference.
You are astute in that you noticed that moving the spring bracket
18" to the left actually puts it CLOSER to the center of the door
than it currently is. I agree. The original installer should have
done that - and I will do that (and post pictures).
I'll wait for Dan Musick's parts to arrive though, as Dan said the
spring bracket and any stud below it will get ripped out of the wall
if I don't also secure the two bearing end plates.
I'll snap a picture of what Dan sent when it arrives.
My understanding of what he suggested was to brace the end
bearing plates against 'something'.
It's a right-turn spring - but the one bolt is just crazy.
That one bolt is ONLY holding the bracket to the angle iron.
I guess it lasted 25 years - so - the installer got away with
it - but all of us agree it's a pretty lame setup that I must fix,
especially with my longer heavier spring.
I only wish I had looked prior to the spring breaking to see
if the spring bracket was flexing that much with the original
spring (which was 9.5 inches shorter than the new one).
I also wish I had opted for a two-spring system, which would
have made a difference - but Dan Musick told me that it still
would have had a problem if the end bearing plates are flexing.
The funny thing is that I don't see any flex in the end bearing
plates. But Dan said it must be there because the spring end
plate can't flex unless the end bearing plates allow it to flex.
I did that. Close to the metal, the nails stop.
Everywhere else, the nails go only through the board and then inches
The outside wall is stucco - so there's nothing on the outside.
I think the metal header is at the ceiling and not at the
garage door. Above the garage door seems to be just a two by four.
What's the construction? Block garage wall is visible, is the whole
structure block or is it frame above block? Where's the break if the
latter? There has to be a header over the opening to support the
block--either a cast prestressed or sometimes they use a preformed metal
that looks somewhat like an inverted 'T'...
Or, maybe the opening above the door is conventional framing between the
block walls on either side???? Would be rather unusual but might
explain the apparent hollowness...
As noted in other response, need more pictures of the area in question
specifically instead of the door...
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