Is a single torsion spring garage door supposed to have a center bearing?

[Danny D.]

I just realized I have about an extra inch of leeway by pushing the hollow rod left or right BEFORE I mount the spring.

However, I'm a bit confused which way (left or right) would be best to push the rod by that inch before I put the spring on.

It's new to me that the rod moves back and forth side to side, and I'm not sure why we move the spring left after it grows, so it's kinda confusing to me which way will put the least side-to-side stress on the bracket.

[Danny D.]

Upon closer inspection, I think the rod does NOT move!

I took my torsion spring off yet again, and moved both cable drums inward a bit and tested it out and it STILL bent the spring end plate when the door opened.

Here is a video showing the spring end plate in action:

And, notice how loose my end bearing plates appear to be:

Using a hammer and nail, I found there is NO STUD underneath not only the spring end plate mounting bolts, but also no stud underneath the cable drum mounting points above the door!

Here is a view of the right side end plate problem:

And, here is a view of the left side end plate problem: Methinks this garage door was badly hung - but it lasted for decades - so it should be relatively easy to repair.

[Danny D.]

I just got off the phone with Dan of DDM Doors (he's a saint!) who said that the ONLY way that the spring end plate could be moving like that was if the two bearing end plates were allowing it to move.

So, he said, I can secure the spring end plate, but that in and of itself would NOT solve my problem:

Here is a picture of the spring end plate logistics:

I have to secure the bearing end plates: Dan is going to send me some parts for me to do the job right.

I'll let you know what happens - but I wish I really better understood what is making the spring end plate move like that!

[Danny D.]

Hi Oren,

See this picture which shows the geometries:

I'd agree with you that moving the spring mount bracket LEFT

18" works best because it leaves room to add a second spring (if needed, later).

Moving the bracket right 12" doesn't allow for the second spring. However, moving the bracket left only leaves me about 8 inches before the spring hits the cable drum. (Keep in mind my new 0.250" spring is 10 inches longer than the old 0.234" spring.)

I wish I knew. As far as I can tell, there is NOTHING behind the sheetrock. I punched fifteen 3-inch long nail holes into the sheetrock and the only thing I ran into was the two studs mentioned above.

There is no header. I would have expected a huge beam above the garage door - but I am strongly suspecting there is a steel beam at the ceiling level instead.

Look at this picture. Look at the very top right of the pic:

you see those four huge nuts? I think that's a beam.

You guys know better than I how they build these things. But it sure looks like there isn't any wooden header!

What do you think those four bolts are way up at the top?

[Danny D.]

I can't disagree. I never would have even LOOKED at the end plates had Dan of DDM Garage Doors told me they MUST be flexing.

Mind you, he told me they were flexing BEFORE I even knew that they had no bolts below them (because there is no stud below them).

He surmised that - because he said there is no way the spring anchor bracket would move like that if the end bearing plates were solidly bolted in.

So, he's sending me, gratis, hardware to tie those end bearing plates to the nearest studs. I'm not exactly sure HOW I'm going to do that - but I'll wait for the parts to arrive where I'll figure it out from the pieces.

BTW, I don't work for DDM Garage Doors - but - if you're a do it yourselfer - I would heartily recommend Dan. He's wonderful. Don't even look anywhere else. Buy from him!

He stands behind you, hook, line, and sinker!

[dpb]

Could be. Unfortunately, the picture doesn't show but barely any of the area of interest. Would be easier to diagnose if actually had an area in the picture of interest and perhaps the outside and another w/ the door open looking at the opening overhead...

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[Danny D.]

I did that. Close to the metal, the nails stop. Everywhere else, the nails go only through the board and then inches of space.

The outside wall is stucco - so there's nothing on the outside.

I think the metal header is at the ceiling and not at the garage door. Above the garage door seems to be just a two by four.

[dpb]

What's the construction? Block garage wall is visible, is the whole structure block or is it frame above block? Where's the break if the latter? There has to be a header over the opening to support the block--either a cast prestressed or sometimes they use a preformed metal that looks somewhat like an inverted 'T'...

Or, maybe the opening above the door is conventional framing between the block walls on either side???? Would be rather unusual but might explain the apparent hollowness...

As noted in other response, need more pictures of the area in question specifically instead of the door...

[DerbyDad03]

If there is no header, what are all of those drywall mud splotches covering? They sure look like nail or screw heads to me.

Here's a picture of what's above my door. Let me described it first.

On both sides of the door are 2 jack studs supporting a 2x8 laying flat to form an overhang in front of the door. You can't see that 2x8 because it is exterior of the very top of the door, which is just visible in the picture.

Outboard of those 2 jack studs are 2 more jack studs holding up a 2x8 header which is what you see in the picture.

Resting on the header are very short cripple studs that support a 2x4 laid flat at the ceiling.

If I were to cover the header, cripple studs and 2x4 with drywall like yours is, I would use screws into the lower part of the header and into the upper 2x4. Once I covered them with mud, it would look just like yours.

As far as the 4 bolts in your picture, I can't explain them. What is on the other side of that wall? Is anything mounted on the opposite side that would explain the bolts?

You know, it's just wallboard. If you want to ensure that the brackets and GDO are securely mounted, why not just rip the wallboard out so you'll know exactly what's behind it?

[Danny D.]

Here is a better picture taken just now:

If you look closely, you can see where I still have nails in the gypsum board to the right of the right end bearing plate.

I also left the nails in the stud I found a foot to the right of the spring end plate and another stud a foot and a half to the left of that spring end plate.

Those are the only studs I have to tie to. I have no idea what the four nuts are in the top near the ceiling but I have to assume there is a steel beam at that level.

[Danny D.]

Here is a picture at full strength.

You can see all the nails I left in place (which hit studs) and you can also see the nail holes which didn't hit studs.

[Danny D.]

It's the outside of the house. All stucco. Nothing is on that other side. This is earthquake country - so - maybe the four bolts are attached to an earthquake thing?

Big picture of everything:

[dpb]

You don't show that you tried at the elevation of the (presumed) beam at the level between the bolts to determine if, indeed it does span the opening (can almost guarantee it does but it would tell a lot if you knew that for certain).

It appears to me they spanned the opening at that level below the trusses/joists and then just infilled the opening above the door w/ conventional framing. I also presume there are complementary bolts on the other end hidden by the storage platform????

I've not read this thread--wo I don't know what you're attempting to accomplish here on this part...if you're trying to center up the mounting hardware, as Oren says just pull everything down out of the way, open up the cavity and add blocking as needed then reinstall surface covering.

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[G. Morgan]

NO! That is missing the bearing, it MUST be on there!

[G. Morgan]

Very dangerous. That is where all the energy 'rests'. Screw in another

3" lag screw and get yourself a bearing/bushing.

[G. Morgan]

If you can not get a good lag screw into the bearing plate, you'll need to 'span' some angle iron across the top (where the header should be) and lag into the vertical studs on both sides to make a solid connection point for the bearing plate. Use two 18" pieces of angle iron horizontally to make a mounting point. You can also use wood, a 3/4" piece of plywood that is firmly mounted into the vertical studs on either side of center to make a mounting point. If you do that, you will also need to shim the sides where the drum brackets are mounted so the torsion bar is not bending out towards the garage.

[G. Morgan]

Probably is. See the sheet rock screws? That means there is vertical studs to mount to.

[G. Morgan]

The opener front mount is secured to something. Likely there is a 2x6 bolted to the steel header going all the way horizontally for the vertical studs to be mounted to.

[Danny D.]

I agree it's dangerous, especially in the door-open position:

There is NOTHING below the gypsum board the ENTIRE length of the angle iron which the spring anchor plate is bolted to (by that one bolt). So, the only thing I 'can' add is another short bolt which simply keeps the spring anchor plate mounted to the angle iron. The angle iron itself if bolted (or screwed) at the very top and the very bottom to something inside the wall.

[G. Morgan]

Why don't you cut away some sheetrock to take a peek?