The wife screamed there was a gunshot in the garage and yelled at me to grab the grandkids and shoo them out the front door immediately.
This is what I found in the garage:
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The funny thing is, we've already covered *everything* here, on alt.home.repair; so, I have no additional questions for you guys!
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I'll give Dan at DDM Garage Doors a call in the morning, and, I'll have yet another garage door torsion spring repair under my belt.
I'll measure the springs, upgrade to heavier-duty springs (I'll aim for around 40K cycles), order new springs, winding cones, bearings, cables, hinges, etc. (as needed) - and I'll remove and install everything (probably in about an hour).
Thanks to all your past advice and help - there just isn't anything unknown about the DIY replacement of this particular garage door torsion spring repair. (Or so I hope.) :)
The one last time was this smaller single-spring garage door:
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This spring is the larger door twice it's size, right next to it.
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The real problem last time had nothing to do, per se, with replacing the torsion spring with an upgraded spring and new bearings.
The problem then was that there was NOTHING holding either end flag in place, nor anything under the center support ... so, the entire setup had to be jury rigged because the new heavier longer stronger spring caused a greater load on the unsupported components.
That problem was a one off.
But, it included taking apart the entire garage door setup more than a few times, so, by now, simply replacing two torsion springs should be a breeze (since I'll just go back to the old threads for the DIY details).
Thanks for all your help in the past!
Now I know exactly when the Huckleberries are in season, without having to ask!
Yes, it's a torsion spring, so, AFAIK, there's nothing to "tie". (Maybe you're talking about extension springs?)
The 18-foot long 1" diameter torsion rod is what keeps the torsion spring from killing you when it breaks.
BTW, the total costs in upgraded parts & shipping was around $150: Torsion Spring & Cone: 2"ID, 0.243"thick, 35.25"long SPB-243-35-25L Torsion Spring & Cone: 2"ID, 0.243"thick, 35.25"long SPB-243-35-25R Bearings 1" Freeway Heavy Duty 2"OD BE-100 Shipping Total = $150
The old springs were only 10,000 duty cycle, while these (longer and thicker) springs are 41,000 duty cycle, so, they should last almost 30 years, used four times a day, every day.
BTW, this would have been a 1:1 replacement of the old springs: Torsion Spring & Cone: 2"ID, 0.225"thick, 24.25"long SPB-225-24-25L Torsion Spring & Cone: 2"ID, 0.225"thick, 24.25"long SPB-225-24-25R
But, those springs would only last about 7 years, used 4 times a day.
PS: I guess there is one question. I hate waste. Q: What can I do that's useful with the OLD unbroken spring?
Keep it hanging up on a nail in your garage. It is cheap insurance that neither of your new matched springs will fail, because you could use the spare as a replacement in the event of a break and not be trapped without a spring.
Otherwise, put it out at the curb on garbage day and the recyclers that pick up scrap metal will probably take it. Or, if there is a place that buys scrap metal handy, take it there.
I took a fire-damaged stove to the city recycling place, and before I could get up to the gate, a guy stopped me. He was waiting there just for people like me. Maybe he was even willing to pay me something for it, but since I was going to dispose of it, I just gave it to him and he put it in his pickup and later sold it to a metal recycler.
I sold a sorted pick-up load of copper, aluminum, and steel scrap to a junk yard a couple years ago, but I don't remember how much they paid for any of them.
Or before garbage day, to give people the maximum amount of time to see it. Although around here and at my friend's in the city, I don't think there are any recyclers patrolling. It's just by chance that people who want the stuff sometimes see these things.
neither of your new matched springs will fail, because you could use the s pare as a replacement in the event of a break and not be trapped without a spring.
pick up scrap metal will probably take it. Or, if there is a place that buy s scrap metal handy, take it there.
I went to all the trouble to pack up a bunch of aluminum and other metal ju nque from and took it to the local city recycling place (contracted out). Guess what they wanted to pay me. $0.35!!! I demanded it back, took it ou tside, and dumped it in the free bin. So much for an hour of my time.
BTW, did you guys notice that the spring, which I oiled a year ago when I did my other garage door, must have broken violently, since you can see the spattered oil in those two pictures above, at exactly the point where the spring broke.
It's interesting that that indicates that the circumferential forces must have been greatest at the site of the breakage.
Where is DDK_Bob when we need him to make astute engineering sense out of this observation! :)
aluminum and other metal junque from and took it to the local city recycling place (contracted out). Guess what they wanted to pay me. $0.35!!! I demanded it back, took it outside, and dumped it in the free bin. So much for an hour of my time.
I've found different yards handle things differently. One place, I'll never go back. Always got under paid. Another yard is generous, a third one is some where in the middle.
by pick-up, I meant pick-up truck, that carried up to a ton probably, though the loosely piled metal weighed far far less than that.
The copper was the most expensive and I'm vaguely recalling that we got $40 for that. The steel was the most plentiful, and maybe we got $50 for that. There was not a lot of aluminum, but maybe we got $15 for it, a tolal of 105. I think the total was more like 140.
This was from a small building that was being torn down. The copper was mostly from the radiant heating pipes, in baseboards along the social hall. Maybe 100 feet of it. And electric wires, still with insulation. The rest was miscellaneous.
At the combination junkyard/scrapyard, where I had also gone to buy parts for my car, they removed the copper and weighed that. Maybe they had a factor to account for the aluminum fins that were still on. Same with the aluminum. Then they weighed the truck, removed the steel, and weighed the truck again.
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how to recycle refrigerators, water heaters, stuff found on the side of the road. Peeking at these pages, none of them look like a very good idea for someone who has a real job.
Hi Oren, I'm a bit confused by your question, because, I don't think it matters what color the huckleberries (um, I mean, springs) are.
We actually covered this at one point in the old DIY thread. Painted colors are, essentially, an old wives tale, which, like all half truths, has some merit, but enough fiction so as to actually be meaningless in the end.
What I mean by that is that, sure, *some* companies use, say, gold paint for spring size 0.225; and, say, green paint for size 0.243; and, say, blue paint for size 0.250 (wire diameter, in inches).
This is the "truth" part of the old wives tale.
The problem is that there is *no universal color convention*. So, while a guy who owns his own garage door repair business knows all *his* 0.250 springs are painted blue, the actual color on someone elses' springs may use an entirely different color convention.
The color only means something to *him* because, to him, especially when time is money, he knows his previous (now broken) spring was painted gold, so he can then replace one of his old (gold) springs with the same color (gold), since he would know that his springs followed one particular color convention.
Since his time means his money, he can match gold-for-gold, and he doesn't have to measure anything. He saves a few minutes. Plus, even if he measured, he has a doublecheck (nothing wrong with that).
So, for FOUR good reasons, spring color is meaningless to me:
There is no color standard; so, to rely on color is folly.
I measured my spring wire diameter; so, I have no need to rely on color. [and most important]
I'm UPGRADING my wire diameter, so, I'd never match color anyway [and, besides]
My springs are so old that there is no color paint visible anyway.
Note: The "red" used for the bolts on the winding cones "supposedly" means "danger"; but, again, anyone relying on paint to tell them what's dangerous doesn't really understand what they're doing.
Likewise, the red on stationary cones is often used to indicate right-hand threads; however, again, anyone relying on the color of a cone to tell them the direction of a thread doesn't really understand what they're doing.
Color paint is fine as a doublecheck; but not as a primary indicator of anything.
This "color" is something else altogether. There are 5 uses of paint on a spring (only one of which is useful):
Color used to denote wire gauge (we covered this in the prior post).
Color (usually red) used to denote dangerous bolts (covered prior).
Color (usually red) used to denote the wind direction (covered prior).
Color (usually a line of #1 above) used to count turns.
Color (usually a line added by the homeowner) used to indicate slip.
Since we covered the first three uses of color in the prior post, let's explain the next two (of which, only the last one is useful).
Here is a picture of the new (larger wire gauge) springs:
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Here is a picture of the old (smaller wire gauge) springs:
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Here is a picture of my spring that I put in a year ago on another door:
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It's hard to see in the picture, but last year's spring has both #4 and #5 in my list painted in white paint on it. $4 was painted *before* the spring was installed (it shows up as 7 spirals); while #5 was painted *after* the spring was mounted (it shows up as a straight line but it's not really visible in the photo).
Regarding #4:
It's folly to use the spiral lines to count turns for a whole bunch of reasons, but, mainly because the better way to count turns is to count from 28 to 30 quarter turns (for a 7-foot door). You couldn't possibly make a full turn with the winding bars, so, counting quarter turns makes practical sense (as explained by Dan Musick in all his videos) since that's what you do.
The *reason* for 28 to 30 quarter turns isn't as obvious, but, it's simply because a drum is "about" a foot in circumference (it's actually about 13 inches, and the diameter actually changes as the wire winds, but, let's not get picky right now).
So, every full turn is a foot of cable, and since the door is 7 feet tall, it would take 7 full turns to raise the door the full 7 feet. Since you can't do full turns, that's 7x4 quarter turns, or 28 quarter turns.
Since you want a slight bit of tension on the door, that would be slightly more than 28 quarter turns, and, since the drum isn't exactly one foot, nor do you raise the door exactly 7 feet, you really need an extra quarter turn or two, so, the typical number of quarter turns is greater than 28, but, depending on balance, might be 29 or 30.
Regarding #5: The *only* color on the springs which, in the end, is useful, is a line painted straight on a spring *after* it has been mounted. Why? Because if that line isn't straight, then the spring has slipped. This generally happens over a long period of time, say, 5 years later, as the spring steel fatigues.
Of course, another way to know whether a spring is fatiguing is simply to measure (with your hands) the sprung weight of the door at the midpoint, but, for the price of painting a line, it's still an ok thing to visualize the slippage, over time, in the spring with that white line.
In summary, there are five uses of color in a torsion spring, and, only one of them has even the slightest amount of value.
Often, people who do not understand torsion springs are the ones calling the garage door repairman who has to ask them questions to ascertain what springs he needs to load on the truck.
So, that guy, on the phone, asks about color.
Why does he ask about color?
Because, if he were to ask the little old lady reporting her garage door won't open what direction the spring was wound, she couldn't tell him.
But, for a single spring door, if he asks what color the cone was painted, she could tell him "red". That would indicate, to him, most of the time, that there is a good chance that this is a RHW spring. So he'd make sure that spring was on the truck.
Likewise, he'd have a hard time asking her to measure the wire gauge of the old spring. So, he might ask "What color is the line on the spring", and she could tell him "it's blue". That way, if the spring is similar to the brand he uses, he'd know to put a 'blue' spring on the truck.
Since the original springs are most likely the cheap 10,000 cycle "industry standard", for him, blue would equate to blue, and he'd know what to give her.
But he'd certainly check (by simply measuring ten or twenty coils and dividing to get the wire gauge) before installing the new blue spring. If the gauge was off, he'd put the right spring on (if it was on the truck).
So, color doesn't really matter. It only gives the guy an easy (but highly inaccurate) way to ask what the dimensions of the spring are of people who know nothing about springs.
Of course, that's most of the population; so, I guess, color matters, in that case.
But, to me, color is meaningless, and I don't rely on color for anything other than a quick doublecheck.
No, not extension springs. I should have been clearer, but I was talking then about when installing the spring, not about storing it.
In your picture, especially the close-up, what is the role of the coil spring? It's either two springs with 3 or 4 inches in between, or one spring that has broken in two.
The spring is attached at both ends so neither end can move. When you wind a spring 7-1/2 turns, it "grows" by the thickness of 7-1/2 coils. Plus, you manually stretch it outward another coil thickness to prevent binding.
If your wire gauge is, say, 1/4 inch, then that's about 8 coils (roughly) that the spring will expand when wound and set. That's about 2 inches that the spring grows.
Since the spring is bolted down on both ends, when it breaks, there will be that distance between them.
In my picture below, the spring on the left is broken. The spring on the right is intact:
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These are the replacement springs from DDM Garage Doors (which arrived only one day after they were shipped):
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You'll notice the new (upgraded) springs are black (galvanized isn't worth anything, in reality); one winding cone has red paint on it (the RHW spring); there is a blue line painted straight (which will coil 7 times); and that the dimensions are painted on it, which are 35-1/4 inches long, with a wire gauge of 0.243 inches.
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