Good point on the water softener, I had overlooked that. I've never had one, but it typically requires putting salt in, servicing it, etc. Given the OP is paying for it, likely lugging the bags around, doing the work, $50 starts to sound quite reasonable to me. And if there is no agreement that the other party is responsible for repairs, pump replacement, softener replacement, etc, then it's probably a bargain.
+1
+1
The OP said that he's watering the lawn 2 or 3 times a day. I wonder if the neighbor had any input on that insanity and if that might be one thing that lead to wondering where the money is going, who's really using it, etc.
Are you sure she wants it, or would insist on, using the kill-o-wattt, for every month. If I were in her shoes, I'd want some real idea of how much it cost to run the pump, and I'd want to measure each one for a week or two or maybe a month or 2 or 3 momths, but after that, I'd agree on a price and just pay it, Note how much electicity is now per KwH, and if it goes up enough to warrant redoing the arithmetic, raise the price by the same percentage. WRite all this down so if you ever end up in small claims court you'll have a record. After you've gathered data for months, give her two copies and have her sign one and return it to you.
You definitely need to use your litle meter on the pump. Most people have no idea how much their pump is running, and how much more it runs when the lawn is watered. And how much electricity that takes and how much that costs. That's what she wants to know and I don't blame her.
For all she knows, you've been making a 35 dollar profit on her, over
400 dollars a year.
Does the water conditioner system require electricity? It does require chemicals iiuc.
The baseboard heater runs a lot more in the winter than the summer, but the electric company ought to be able to tell you how much it costs to heat a room the size of your pump room. Would the room be heated if there were no pump in it? Do you have other things that are just for you in that room. If yes and yes, than you have to pay more than half of the cost of the heat. If No and No, than split it down the middle.
That takes almost no electricity, right. The timer and the valve transformer. You can put the little Kill-o-Watt meter on that for a a couple weeks, and extrapolate to the whole summer, then either charge more in the summer or average it out for the year.
Just like the cost for the baseboard heater, firguure out how much it costs per season and eiither charge more in the winter or average it out for the whole year.
When she bought her condo she was in a great mood and agreed to whatever, but now she's had time to think and she wonders if she's overpaying. I don't blame her.
Maybe she' having financial problems and the fight is just an excuse to not pay, but I think you should still meter the pump for a month or more, and the sprinkler system for a week or more (assuming its a week that you actually sprinkle.) make detailed notes about start and stop** settings and how you calculate the expense. And when you're done send it to her with a new calculation of what she should pay every month.
It may be that she's overpaid ever since she moved in.
**Does she have access to the pump room. If not***, maybe you should send her a note, a text on the phone seems like a good place to make a record of it, that you're going to be plugging in the kill-o-watt meter at 10AM Sunday if she'd like to watch and you can note the readings together, and every Sunday at 10, you'll write down t he results, if she wants to be there. And say when you'll switch to the sprinkler system, one of thosse sundays at 10, of course. Find a day and time that's convenient for both of you. If she never gets back to you, that will be her failing.
***Even if she has access, that just makes it less necessary for her to be there when you take your readings. She can come an hour later and make her own readings and they should be similar to the ones you take , and write down. Or if she comes a day later, they should be 1/7th of the way between your start and a week later. But this is more calculations and it would be best if you were there together to write everything down. You should do that, and maybe she should too., sort of like counting votes as tallied on the back of mechanical voting machines, all three poll watchers either write down what's there or look on the official originally blank form to see what the other has written.
I don't think she wants that.
She showing you the sort of thing she wants. You can get the same chart for NJ. If you can't find it call the power company and ask them. Or call the property management compnay that the condos use. They probably manage more than one property and even if they don't, they might have this or they'll go find it. That's part of their job, although they may want to charge extra!!
So she's offered 15. So that makes the chance that she's in financial problems much less. 15 might be right. How do you know it's not?
I haven't read the other replies, but I'll bet they'll say it costs barely any elecricity to run the sprinkler system, and the only thing that does cost is running the pump.
No. She's offering 15 dollars a month. He put that at the end somewhere, so I think a lot of people missed it.
Usually, but not forever. If no time peiiod is specified, the court will assume a reasonable time. Like maybe a year. Or maybe less. Then they get to renegotiate.
And his efforts with the salt bags should be considered, as well as that there are 3 people in the other unit..
Wow, hadn't considered that. That changes everything.
The well must be owned by the condo assoc and on it's own official service drop with its own meter. Electric service and other maintenance costs need to be billed to condo assoc. Water meters need to be installed to determine each users share of the bill. Water softener needs to be serviced/maintained by paid third party.
This ditz sure opened up an expensive can of worms!
That's what I would think is reasonable too. But, you can't do it with a simple Killawatt either, it's very likely 240V and it's surely hard wired in. Plus, it's a multifamily building, in which case I don't think you can legally do your own electric work either, especially with the hostile neighbor. Also, we don't know if the OP is even capable of doing the work himself anyway. So, it could cost quite a bit to get this done by an electrician and probably just as much to do it temporarily as permanent.
Note how much electicity is now per KwH,
In which case it gets more complicated to rewire to a power meter and more costly.
Unlikely he's going to use a Killawatt on the pump.
Most people
He also said he waters the lawn 2 or 3 times every day. I'm thinking that might have lead her to wonder what's going on, what it's costing, etc. Would be interesting to know if that subject ever came up.
Adding the salt, buying it, hauling it home, are one reason why $50 a month doesn't sound high to me anymore. I hadn't factored that in. Also, $50 is perfectly reasonable if the neighbor has no shared responsibility for repair, replacement costs. The pump could fail tomorrow and the OP could have a $1000 expense. If all that's on the OP, $50 is more than reasonable. Also, who paid for this well to begin with?
That's for sure, it's zero in summer.
but
What that's using is negligible. It's just a wallwart. Who pays to blow the sprinkler system out each Fall, who pays for repairs to it or who does that stuff themselves instead of paying someone, would be more important.
She had nationally agreed with hand shake when
Some here claim she agreed to a contract with the OP and she's stuck forever, a court would force her to keep paying the $50, etc. I say from what I've heard so far, no time period was ever specified, so the contract was good as long as each party was OK with it. It's kind of like a guy coming to your house selling bottled water and you verbally agree to take 10 gallons a week from him for $10. Does that mean you're contractually bound forever? Of course not.
And who pays for the cost of installing all the necessary metering? I'd only do it if she agrees to split the cost and also agrees to split the cost of repairs to the various components, not just the operating cost.
As I see it, she would have overpaid only if she was sending him more than the $50 a month. That was the agreed on amount. There was no agreement or requirement to accurately split the cost. He offered her water at $50 a month, she accepted. How about if he finds out that it's actually costing him more than $100 and he wants her to now pay him the difference for each month retroactively? And if the agreement never included the shared cost of the well to begin with, repairs on it, repairs on the sprinkler system, water softner maintenance, etc, then she has absolutely zero reason to even claim that $50 is unreasonable.
A second well would be the best solution for the OP if it's determined the lady who doesn't want to pay is the one who has to pay for it.
Without the condo master deed, the bylaws and knowing the whole history of how this came to be, it's not clear who would have to pay for what.
I don't think a court would even consider a "reasonable" time period. If there was no time period agreed to, I'd say the contract is good for as long as both parties are OK with it. Say a guy comes to your house selling bottled water. You just agree to take 10 gallons a week, for $10. How long does that bind either party for? I'd say the same thing, as long as both parties are still OK with it.
All these problems are very good reasons why one should never get into this kind of thing to begin with. And if somehow you do, for sure when you're agreeing to something like this, there should be a written, signed contract in place. If I were the OP, I'd have a section in there stating that I was not responsible for water quality, for any service interruption due to power loss, eqpt failure, etc. And it should also spell out who is responsible for paying for the repair and/or replacement of these systems.
Or, similar to here, it's large and don't have a fixed system so use multiple lawn tractor-style sprinklers...in dry spells they run essentially constantly as it takes several days to cover the area so it's time to start over when finish one pass.
Large front yard and condo does not compute, generally. And even if it is very large, why would you water 2-3 times a day, instead of just continuous, start to finish?
Being in an area with its own well and as was stated it started as a single dwelling which has been subdivided instead of being built as a condo in a more confined area, it doesn't seem unlikely at all to me that it might very well (so to speak :) ) be situated on a sizable lot.
Now, if indeed there is a "sprinkler system" and by that it means it's a fixed system rather than the poor man's version of the tracking sprinkler following the hose pattern, it would seem that perhaps the controller is set up wrong to be running as frequently as is rather than thoroughly watering a given section. But then again, maybe its actually even larger and the zones are that many...who knows for sure?
There are submetering outfits. I worked for one a decade ago. I loved Kill-a-watt. Want one for heat. Was looking at doppler flow meters. COuldn't find a used one cheap enough that I would enjoy opening up and playing with it. Water does have some magnetism, and the magnetic meters may be getting good and cheap enough.
We got meters from India and China. THe best wudda been to send the signal thru the power grid itself, except everywhere you get a transformer you lose the signal (which is why power firms never got into internet). Some will use a phone or internet line to send the meter reading in. As I understand it the future is using RFID to read the meters as you drive (or drone fly) by the unit. I've seen meter reading drone ads in engineering mags.
Anyone good with Parallax boards and Adruino? (email me) I got an HVAC tri-corder project on the back burner some HVAC engineers talked me into a few years ago. Problem is, as soon as we make it, you know the Chinese will flood us with a five buck version. Use infrared to measure temperature, ultrasound to measure flow rates, and magnetism to measure electricity and maybe flow.
My cabin is situated on a bare land condo. We have community well for all. But I drilled my own one. Condo should have by law, a board and government approved condo by-law where I live. No problem between owners at all. Nothing like OP's problem can occur.
It could be. Given how sloppy the OP has been with all of these postings, I bet there is something in the chain of title saying the well is shared and costs are to be shared. Now all he has to do is figure an accurate way to share costs, not just keep using the number someone pulled out of their butt.
And is the yard shared? Who pays for that (not just the water)?
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