how much should I be charging for these shared appliances..

I share a well with my neighbor we have 2 dwelling condo. My unit concest of myself, and her unit has 3 people as of now. We share the following which are all connected to my electric Meter... well pump, water conditioner system, electric base board heater that keeps the pump room warm during the winter all in a room in my garage. Also a sprinkle system that shared on the front property. It's a 50/50 shared property. She had nationally agreed with hand shake when she bought the unit next to me back November 2014, I came up with a charge $ 50.00 which she agreed and was paying this till past May 2015 she stopped paying her monthly obligation To me. I was willing to drop the price down, she putting up a fight. She is reneging On everything, I had no choice put to seek legal advice and the issue is still not resolved. She wanted to use a kill- a- watt gizmo in my garage, I'm Not her landlord to be checking each day that this gizmo is functioning Right, and again given her the convenience Every month timeing this and that off my electric bill. I think not... It's not the long term solution, especially if I want to sell my unit no one wants to be involved with a gizmo. Then my neighbors chopped up with a internet chart from Runstone Electric Association energy from Alexandra M,N from 2014, We live here in New Jersey not M,N. The chart says it varies from family to family. She only wants to pay $ 15.00 a month for her Calculations We're wrong from that chart, also there was no mention how much a sprinkler system runs on electric, my neighbor has no idea.... I think the best solution would be a second well... Do you have any other ideas, well can be costly, she would have to pay half since it's a shared property..

Reply to
NG
Loading thread data ...

You should be talking to her, not to us. We don't even know what you pay for electricity. $250/month? More? Less? Where I live $50/month for what you describe seems very high. My last bill was $47. (Though we don't leave things on when we're not using them; we don't have AC or microwave; we have gas for heat and stove.) $15 sounds about right to me. If I had to guess I'd say you were gouging them. But I'm not in your condo association and don't know the details. What if $15 is not enough and it should be $20? Who cares? $5/month. You're thinking of paying a lawyer to take it to court over that? It sounds to me like you and the neighbor need better communication.

Reply to
Mayayana

...

What do the actual legal ownership documents of the property state regarding the well (if anything)?

If there isn't some written contract you're basically on your own as at present the well is on your meter and you're the one responsible for that meter.

It is, of course, reasonable that costs for shared utilities be shared, but that arrangement should have been formalized prior to occupancy and a way to enforce it made then.

The solution in the present situation case would likely be based on putting the well on its own meter and also installing water metering to ratio the use between the two properties if you've not willing to just use the suggested usage meter and back that from the monthly bill which would roughly accomplish the same objective. Unless you have some basis for ratioing the water usage to cause different split you could try compute some ratio based on occupancy considering how much the landscaping might be as a fraction of the total that, I presume, would be 50:50. And, of course, the agreement needs to also cover shared maintenance costs and repairs, not just monthly operational cost.

You can, of course, go to small claims court to recover past owings; you'll have to draft a contract going forward and after the sale instead of as part of that transaction it'll likely be somewhat more difficult. I've no idea on the actual legal rights; that would, I suspect be based on locality and you'll probably do need some advice from a professional there on how to proceed.

The cleanest going forward certainly would be to split the utilities entirely with separate wells but that'll no doubt be more expensive in the short term for both and undoubtedly more expensive going forward as well as each property then will have full maintenance costs of a system rather than sharing for one.

Reply to
dpb

I agree (for the most part), but she will be using the well, with multiple people, more than he.

Reply to
bob_villa

If it's just the operating costs, I agree. But who pays if the pump needs to be replaced? The well stops producing? The sprinkler system needs maintenance? If all those are treated as split costs if and when they occur, then $50 a month for electric to run what's on that list does sound like a lot of money. I would also hope the electric heater is just keeping the temp reasonably above freezing. I wouldn't think the total operating cost for both units is $50 a month, except maybe in the coldest winter months when the electric heater is running.

Killawatt thing would solve it, but you'd have to do some temporary rewiring to get those loads on it and probably have to do them one at a time. The sprinkler system controller is negligible, the well pump part of that is what matters.

Interesting that this was in place and nothing in the closing documents address how it's going to be handled? It's just a very bad arrangement. Even if it's spelled out, it's still ripe for trouble, as he's learned.

Reply to
trader_4

So, you are overcharging her for her half share of the electricity and if she wants to measure actual usage you come up with:

"I'm not her landlord". "checking each day that this gizmo is functioning Right"

No sympathy here.

Reply to
Dan Espen

Is there no mention of this arrangement in the property deeds?

I think it would be easier and cheaper to put in a separate electric meter for the common elements. Another thought is to have your own private water meters installed. Get a quote from a plumber and maybe they can be instal led where everyone can read them.

John Grabowski

formatting link

Reply to
John G

On 09/13/2015 8:49 AM, trader_4 wrote: ...

The well here is on separate meter and during summer months can reach nearly $200 if sprinklers are run significantly and even during winter $50 isn't unheard of. So on average that might be about right here altho I've not totaled up for any number of years to see what a long-term average might be. Of course, there's a pretty sizable yard area and garden here so it's likely a larger usage and that's total not just half, but may not be as far out of line as one might think...particularly if count something for the maintenance going forward, etc., ...

But it is a nightmare arrangement.

Neighboring place up the road a ways sold off a corner of the ground around the homestead (farm house and associated outbuildings corral area, etc., the original dairyman who built the place died and the widow kept the farm ground but had sold the roughly 20A); the new buyer cleverly made sure the boundaries included the well; the seller wasn't wary (and apparently either just did the deal himself or had an equally bonehead lawyer) and let it go that way.

Within a month of moving in, the new guy cut the line serving the other property off and that was that...the original owner ended up drilling a new well.

Reply to
dpb

Your first mistake was buying your home without knowing what the deal is.

Your second mistake was agreeing to anything with your neighbor.

Your third mistake was not checking your property records to see what the deal is, hopefully there is something documented.

Your fifth mistake is not taking a mathematical approach to this.

Your sixth mistake is thinking some sort of measurement to figure out actual costs.

Your seventh mistake is not considering maintenance costs in addition to electric costs.

The idea of a separate well is expensive, that is why there is a shared well.

The idea of separate utility billing for the well is also expensive. In addition to the cost of an electrician, in my neck of the woods the utility company gouges you for a new service. REALLY gouges you.

The idea of separate utility billing also does not deal with quantity of water used or maintenance costs.

You need to do some math and see what is what. That is AFTER you look at the property records to see what is, hopefully, documented. (this may just say all costs will be shared, which puts you back to square one, with the option of turning her off totally ruled out, if it is not already due to a prescriptive easement theory).

You should consider a reserve account both you and your neighbor pay into for maintenance costs.

You are right to be aware that this is going to be a problem when you sell your condo, not just at the present.

Is this part of a larger condo complex? Are there other shared wells or systems (whether or not you or your neighbor are part of them)?

Reply to
taxed and spent

That could have been the intent of both parties from the outset.

Reply to
taxed and spent

Long term, a separate meter would be the solution. Short term the Kill a watt is a cheap solution.

You are battling over $600 a year. You can probably involve a lawyer and quickly spend $6000 or more so better you come up with a solution you can live with. You can buy a meter that is easily attached and can be read independent of your home meter so nothing had to be coordinated. You read it once a month and split the bill. You should also work out how to pay for the inevitable repairs to the system. Put a few bucks into a fund every month until you have enough to cover a new pump so you don't take a big hit at one time.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

No, I know very well it wasn't the seller's intent whatsoever or he would have dug the well prior to coming home from work one afternoon to discover he had no water...

Reply to
dpb

A 1hp pump runs about 7 amps, ~1700 watts. Using 13 cents/kwh that's

22 cents an hour. Water 5 hours and it's $1.10 Assuming you water 3 times a week, that would be $3.30, or $13 a month. If you watered 10 hours at a time, it's still $26 a month. I don't see how you get near $200 unless it's a much bigger system. Given that it's a condo with a shared well, seems the watering would probably be closer to the $13 to $26 a month. And that's for the whole thing.

The heater could be running more than that, but it's for just a few months. Also it's probably not too much for the heater, because he says it's a room in the garage, so I'm thinking it's more like closet size.

That's for sure. It could work OK if you have a reasonable neighbor and the relationship doesn't go south for some other reasons, etc. Even then it could lead to disagreement, one wants to water every day, the other 2x a week, etc. But for sure if ownership changes on either side, who knows who the new owner will be. Clearly this special arrangement should be spelled out, probably in the closing documents for both units. I would suspect that this shared well was probably added after the condos were originally built and sold.

Reply to
trader_4

...your 1st mistake...not having a 4th!

Reply to
bob_villa

Two water meters and one electric meter. Done!

Reply to
Answer Man

:)

That is an exercise left to the student.

Reply to
taxed and spent

it will take YEARS to pay for those with the savings to be had by the neighbor, cutting $50/month down to whatever.

Reply to
taxed and spent

Plus 1 - In an arrangement such as this ALL expenses need to be calculated. Some may be fixed (heat to prevent freezing in that room) others will be variable, e.g amount of water pumped for the unit with 3+ vs. your unit, etc.

You say you need legal advice and I would agree. Problem is you won't get it here. Contact an attorney NOW, before you do anything else, and get his/her advice. Do NOT disconnect the neighbor without checking first with the attorney.

Expense? Sure but the MOST expensive question you can ask your attorney is "Did I do the right thing?" Chances are great that the answer is "No!" and the remedy will cost you far more than the advice going into this would have cost.

Reply to
Unquestionably Confused

Save some money.

Look at the property documents to see what if anything it says. The most it will say is the well is shared and expenses will be shared. It won't have a dollar amount.

Do the proper analysis. Put a kw meter on and keep track for a month. Try to figure how much each household uses. Do the math. Get with your neighbor and come to an agreement. Or sue in small claims court, using your figures.

Note: cost will vary over the year. In winter, less water used, more heating to prevent freezing.

Maintenance will be a bigger problem, down the road.

Why go to a lawyer before you have done these things?

Reply to
taxed and spent

Probably the worst thing here that shows what happens is that the neighbor just stopped paying altogether. I can see her saying the $50 is too high, it very likely is, unless that front lawn is huge and they water it a lot, which doesn't sound too likely for a condo. In that position, I might say it's only worth $X and just start paying that. Not paying at all shows she's a real skunk.

Also, funny that in this whole long description of the problem, we don't know what the total electric bill even is, which is very relevant. I'm thinking there is a reason for that..... Also, we don't know on what, if anything, the $50 initially agreed to payment was based on. That says that the total cost is $100 a month, and if it's just for operating costs, that sounds high to me.

Running a well pump for water for a condo with 3 people in it shouldn't amount to much. The biggest component would be watering the lawn, where the pump is running constantly for a considerable period of time. Even watering a small lawn can take 2000 gallons.

He also referenced some chart from some utility in MN, might be interesting to see what the chart actually shows, but I would suspect he's right that it's probably not relevant. That kind of stuff varies all over the map.

Reply to
trader_4

HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.