Uhh, I wouldn't bet my life on that by trying...Pure water is a lousy conductor, but, most people's water has minerals in it; which makes a pretty good conductor. Doesn't matter if your house is using plastic pipes, at some point, that water supply is going back to a metal line which is going to provide a nice path to ground. If you're in the tub, you're in the way, part of the circuit, not good to be you.
It's not just voltage, it's amperage. It's got kick behind it too.
That's not necessarily true...
Your information isn't accurate.
This is a high voltage demonstration using an inexpensive car ignition coil being driven by a variable frequency, duty cycle and amplitude 555 based mosfet circuit.
Circuit schematic:
Video of circuit in action:
I'm not generating 75k or more, but I am arcing well over an inch before and after I shorten the length. As you can see in the beginning, it's more than happy to exceed the barrier I already setup for it by using the metal of the device holding the wires as another route. No camera tricks of any kind, either. That's really doing what you're seeing in the video; and that particular coil will not generate 75kv on a cold snowy day in hell on 12 volts. Infact, it doesn't even like being driven on 12; it actually prefers 9.
A microwave over transformer makes around 2kv ac voltage, several amps. It can generate a very impressive arc which is well over
6inches or more. Easily. A f****ng dangerous one. The one in my video is higher voltage, but far less kick behind it. The microwave oven transformer, oth, because it's tied into mains power, can kill you dead as a door nail far easier than the one in my video would - it could potentially kill you too, but... less likely to do so than a microwave oven transformer.Residential pole pigs (line transformers) aren't being fed 75kv or more either; but can make an impressive arc (several feet that will try to chase the wire [g]; and yes, it'll kill you f****ng dead if you come into contact with it in many cases) on the input side if disconnected from a hot line, even more so if under load at the time of disconnect. They're typically being fed by 7.2kv or 14.7kv; so again, nowhere near the 75kv you claimed was needed.
The moral, it's not just the voltage, it's the amperage too that decides how much distance the arc can travel at such and such voltage level.
And of course, I'd forget to mention another variable. frequency. The lower the frequency, the longer the arc at xxx voltage. The higher the frequency, the shorter the arc at xxx voltage. You have to factor in ac or dc, voltage, current and frequency in order to determine how far it can jump an open air gap. Moisture is also another variable you have to consider if you're working around HV that has real current behind it - as that kind of HV arc over if you're in the way is much much more likely to kill you.
Along how much power the resulting arc is going to have. What's known as a 'hot spark' or 'hot arc' has some meat behind it, it's not something you want to come into contact with. Nasty shock or much much worse if you do. You can have a weak spark jump over an inch same as you can a hot one. A hot one though can pass through things you get in it's way; plastic, etc. And you won't interrupt it with a shot of compressed air. A weak one you can, with ease.
The arc I mentioned in all three examples above generate hot arcs ranging from a nasty shock (much worse than some BS 'taser') to closed casket funeral. All three are capable of starting fires with ease; which is why the video description clearly mentions not to try to use the circuit as is to make an electric fence. None of the three above examples are being fed by or generate anywhere near the 75kv you claimed was necessary. Two of the three aren't even getting 300 volts; but they are certainly putting out a hell of a lot more than that; just not 75kv worth. And I'm not even factoring in high humidity/moisture as an added bonus to make it easier for the arc.
Oh, and incidently, one generates atleast a kilovolt under the 3kv you claimed was necessary to jump a mm. That would be the microwave oven transformer. It typically generates no more than 2 to 2.5kv. It uses a voltage doubler to generate the 5kv dc necessary to run the magnetron; but the transformer itself isn't making 5kv. [g]
So anyways, your statement is flatout wrong. Sorry.
Diesel snipped-for-privacy@haph.org wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@t77x7AkL7.FbFosETwFvw9z7iKzgi4G03HI9mL2a hBdF99av:
Uhh... You a basic electronics guy, eh?
We do not need a primer on water conductivity in an electronics newsgroup. Pretty much common sense around here. The question was about a tub. We ALL already know that it is assumed that the water conducts. There is very little pure water around to fill bathtubs with.
The tub of water is NOT connected to "the water supply" once the tub is filled. You have logic flaws in your argument.
OK, so I thought you were a basic electronics guy, but you even fail on that.
You have to get the current path logic right, before you can start arguing about folks being part of a circuit. Your argument is flawed.
Diesel snipped-for-privacy@haph.org wrote in news:XnsAB021D591D922HT1 @t77x7AkL7.Fb1FosET2wF3v4w9z7iKzgi4G03HI9mL2ahBdF99av:
You ain't real bright. If it builds enough to reach the ground due to having the voltage to breach the gap, the ensuing connection will have high current for the moment of the event. Current does not flow at all until the event, so it is voltage that is required to do the job. The current is just the result of the job being done.
So, it is JUST THE VOLTAGE.
Bullshit. A bread bag has the strength to withstand household voltages. Period. PVC has even greater withstand capacity. So you also do not know much about polymers, films, or dielectric strength either.
Diesel snipped-for-privacy@haph.org wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@t77x7AkL7.FbFosETwFvw9z7iKzgi4G03HI9mL2a hBdF99av:
The moral? You'r an idiot. The FACT is that you are full of s*it.
Arc initiation and arc continuation are two diferent things. Once a carbon path has been established arcing can crawl to and from other than the initial gap breach nodes.
You really should refrain from further 'pontification' because you do not know what you are talking about.
Diesel snipped-for-privacy@haph.org wrote in news:XnsAB0221B6FC6A3HT1 @t77x7AkL7.Fb1FosET2wF3v4w9z7iKzgi4G03HI9mL2ahBdF99av:
You are a goddamned retard. The number I gave is the accepted number from the scientific community.
I'll go with that over your layman ramblings any day.
The differ from maker to maker, and you are clueless about any other than the one you toyed with. Unless you are a service tech, and then I will start laughing all over again.
Wow. you know f*ck all next to nothing about microwave ovens too.
Yeah, you are one sorry layman mother f***er.
Very sad
No money? Did she have children?
@t77x7AkL7.Fb1FosET2wF3v4w9z7iKzgi4G03HI9mL2a
I was reading this in home.repair. Didn't notice, until today it's crossposted.. What is basic electronics to you?
As I said, this isn't just in an electronics newsgroup...
I've learned due to the electronics repair and electrical trades based on experience not to assume people have common sense or understand even the basic concepts...Sorry if you took my post as something other than what it was intended to be.
It is if the tub happens to be a metal drain.. Doesn't matter if you have very little water coming in contact with the top of your plugged drain, you're still making contact. Common sense tells me, that not everyone's homes plumbing is all plastic. Oh, it's that damn electrical trade experience I have, wiring the f****ng things...
*yawn* Didn't checkout the channel available via the link I published huh? The 1st video is a commercial wiring job.
connection will have high current for the moment of the event.
Not necessarily. You can have whats known as a 'cold' arc, too. It has very little current behind it, it's so weak infact it can't even ignite fuel vapor. A battery powered bug zapper circuit, aka, a juul thief can generate a tiny arc; it's not enough to bring you any serious harm and won't even light a piece of paper if you tried.
No, it isn't. How much experience do you actually have with HV?
You have credible references for this? Share them please.
Heh, well, as I said, I'm not generating 75kv in that ciruit, but it's jumping over an inch, just fine.
Do you have any experience with microwave oven repair? The majority of ovens sold for retail use are being supplied with 2kv transformers.
Umm. I wasn't talking about inverter ovens, but the plain jane heavy transformer models. They are using a voltage doubler to get 5kv to feed the magnetron. The transformer is NOT generating 5kv DC to run it on it's own. There's a big fat DIODE and a capacitor in the circuit too; which is a voltage doubler!
Heh, well, my video clearly shows that your statement of needing 75kv to make an inch long jump isn't accurate. Not even close. You're a f****ng electrical accident (a statistic) waiting to happen.
Diesel snipped-for-privacy@haph.org wrote in news:XnsAB02A8E6F1064HT1 @t77x7AkL7.Fb1FosET2wF3v4w9z7iKzgi4G03HI9mL2ahBdF99av:
Yeah... that thing where you make assumptions about drain construction when you are "an electrician". not a plumber.
The drain is not connected to the feed tap manifold.
So, NO, the water line is NOT connected to a tub full of water once it is filled and the water is off.
You are 'an electrician', use an ohmmeter. You "wiring folks" know what that is, right? Find out for yourself.
Umm... yawn?
Umm... Yawn... no, I did not visit ANY of your posted links.
I was wiring circuits back in the early seventies, *and* I know what the term 'continuity' means.
Diesel snipped-for-privacy@haph.org wrote in news:XnsAB02A8E77DE50HT1 @t77x7AkL7.Fb1FosET2wF3v4w9z7iKzgi4G03HI9mL2ahBdF99av:
Yes, it very much so is, wire boy.
I have HV supplies at LANL and that went up on space shuttle missions. So, very likely more than you have, since you likely do not even know what LANL is, much less anything about space bound electronic packages. I know more about arcing than you do... obviously.
Diesel snipped-for-privacy@haph.org wrote in news:XnsAB02A8E7F9A1EHT1 @t77x7AkL7.Fb1FosET2wF3v4w9z7iKzgi4G03HI9mL2ahBdF99av:
As if you could ever be a judge of what is or is not credible.
Normal air at sea level. 3kV / mm
Diesel snipped-for-privacy@haph.org wrote in news:XnsAB02A8E7F9A1EHT1 @t77x7AkL7.Fb1FosET2wF3v4w9z7iKzgi4G03HI9mL2ahBdF99av:
One diode and one cap does not make a voltage doubler. The diode is a rectifier so that the magnetron gets a DC feed.
The ones I looked only had one diode and capacitor. Seems to me to be a
1/2 wave rectifier. Hardly a voltage doubler.Under a light load you may get 1.41 times the voltage of the secondary of the transformer.
If it was a voltage doubler circuit which would require atleast 2 diodes and capacitors you would get about 2.5 times the transformer voltage under a light load.
the magnetron _is_ a rectifier. the diode and cap are to double the voltage and limit the current. magnetron (thermionic diode) ..... __________:_ : ||(__________:_3 |-:--- gnd || | : : ___ || _--||-+ ''''' _)||(_ | ___)||(_ V ||(_ T semiconductor rectifier diode ||(__ | ||_| ----' | gnd
Nope. It's not. You're providing information that could actually get someone harmed (or worse) and or cause property damage. It does NOT take 75,000 volts to jump an inch open air gap.
You obviously do not know more about it than I do. Mr 'wire boy' as you called me is trained for working safely with this:
I realize you thought you were looking at a half wave rectifier circuit, but you aren't. Look closer at the components wiring configuration sometime, you'll notice something different. :)
The diode is going across hot and neutral, the capacitor is coming off one side; exact opposite of what you'd have for a half wave ac to dc rectifier. What you have in this configuration, is an ac to dc half wave voltage doubler circuit.
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