I'll take my VENTED appliance... it leaves 0 parts of carbon monoxide in my home. :-)
Need to replace Electric Baseboard Heating Units & Replacement Windows
Jan 27, 2007
100 Replies
Untill a squirrel dies in the vent from co poisoning?
So what's your point? There's no such thing as complete combustion in the real world unless you live in Nick's world. Therefore some CO is going into your home. My point is two fold.
First, CO is normal product of combustion. I'd be glad to have you show me any data I can check myself showing fossil fuel combustion using off the shelf equipment the average person's going to have in their home that produces NO CO during the course of its normal operation.
Sec>>
800 ppm - (air-free) Level of CO allowed inside oven flues by an American gas association (now ANSI) standard, # Z21.1. [this level is unchanged since 1921 when oven flues were still vented outdoors like woodstoves, instead of directly into the kitchen as they have since
1950s!
And for a reference point, 400 ppm - Level of CO (air-free) allowed inside furnace flues by an American gas association (now ANSI) standard.
So, it's permissible by ANSI standards for your properly adjusted kitchen stove to vent TWICE the level of CO INTO your home that your furnace can vent up the flue.
You th>>
How can you relate "permissible levels" with "properly adjusted"?
I don't think it is ok for any CO to be in closed living space, and all I mentioned is that there are millions of stove top burners and unvented ovens, if they are not safe, it is something that is not widely known.
While gas company men may not check for CO levels, they will not turn a meter on without making sure there are no burners on that are not controlled by safety valves.
The gas company turned my meter off last spring to fix a leak in the street, and I wasn't home when they wanted to turn it back on, and I told them to wait till fall, and when I called, the man came out and lit the space heater pilot in the living room, and wouldn't take my word that I had the supply valve to the gas range turned off, he checked top see for himself before turning the meter on, and wouldn't leave until I showed him the vent pipe for the space heater in my room that is turned off, but available if the grid goes down to replace my electric heat.
In about 1975, somehow the main gas valve for the entire city of Somerset, Pennsylvania was turned off, and it could not be turned back on until every one of the 5,000 or so meters were turned off, and the meters then only turned back on as men from utilities from several states went house to house lighting pilots, it took almost a week, luckily the temperature was in the 30s and 40s F.
Joe Fischer
The range manufactures believe so...
Have you not been around to many furnaces in the last 10+ years?
A plugged flue = NO HEAT
Told ya he was a smart man. :-)
Here ya go.... the facts.
The American Standard - UL2034
This standard was implemented in the early nineties to cover products being supplied and used in the American (and North American) markets. It has also been subject to a number of amendments over the years (1997,1998, 2001).
Products officially approved to this standard must be clearly marked with the UL symbol (perhaps add picture of UL symbol to web page).
Main alarm requirements :
a.. at 30ppm CO, the alarm must not activate for at least 8 hours b.. at 70ppm CO, the alarm must not activate before 60 minutes but must activate before 240 minutes c.. at 150ppm CO, the alarm must not activate before 10 minutes but must activate before 50 minutes d.. at 400ppm CO, the alarm must not activate before 4 minutes but must activate before 15 minutes
Here's some more info...
HOW MUCH CARBON MONOXIDE IS TOO MUCH
Always check with The Authority Having Jurisdiction. Know who is in the building being tested.
ASHRAE 62-89 (American Society of Heating, Refrigeration and Air Conditioning Engineers)
009 PPM The maximum allowable concentration for continuous (24 hr) exposure. ASHRAE states the ventilation air shall meet the out door air standard referenced to EPA and 9 PPM.EPA (Environmental Protection Agency)
009 PPM This level or lower as an ambient air quality goal averaged over eight (8) hours. This outdoor air standard is exceeded in many urban areas due to auto exhaust.Common Action Level
009 PPM or more above what you measured outside is the most common action level in the U.S. by local Authorities of Jurisdiction for further testing. Some jurisdictions require fuel shut-off until problem diagnosed and corrected.BPI (Building Performance Institute)
10 to 35 PPM is a marginal level in reference to potential or foreseeable problems in some situations. Occupants should be advised of a potential health hazard to infants and small children, elderly people and persons suffering from respiratory or heart problems. If building has attached auto garage, document CO levels in garage. Accept this level as normal where unvented appliances are in use. These levels are unacceptable when originated from vented appliances.36 to 99 PPM is excessive. Medical alert. Conditions must be mitigated. Ventilation required. Always test garage space. Individually test combustion appliances. All repairs are to be conducted by a qualified technician with proper test equipment.
100 to 200 PPM is dangerous (and is a common building evacuation standard.) Medical alert conditions exist. It is suggested that occupant health inquiries be conducted. It is advisable that someone else transports them to seek medical help; 15 minute maximum exposure upon discovery. Report incident to Authority of Jurisdiction.ACGIH (American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienist)
25 ppm - maximum 8 hour TWA (Time Weighted Average)EPA
035 PPM This level or lower as an ambient air quality goal averaged over one (1) hour.Common Action Level
035 PPM is also a common action level for fire department or other emergency responders to utilize self contained breathing apparatus when occupation of that environment is to be sustained by that responder.035 PPM or less averaged over an 8 hour day within that workday is a common goal of specific States Occupational Health and Safety Administration or similar state entity. This is also a common goal of many employers despite higher regulated concentration standards and may require the measurement of several simultaneous reference locations.
OSHA (Occupational Health and Safety Administration)
050 PPM Maximum allowable concentration for a workers continuous exposure in any eight (8) hour period. This 8-hour average requires continuous measurement and accurate reporting in the workplace.Any increase in PPM from outside to inside warrants further source investigation and is documented, reported and even fixed is common in jurisdictions where a fuel supplier also is considered an Authority of Jurisdiction. This standard is also common to some federally and state funded weatherization programs as well as protocol to some private companies engaged in carbon monoxide testing.
Every home or building where people live, work or play should have a carbon monoxide alarm detector. Please install one that meets the needs of all people. Read the instructions and install them to the manufacturers specifications. Please note the health advisory listed on all alarm packages.
"AKS" wrote
That's because you can barely read or write.
Bullshit! Tell us what appliances absorb CO to make a room safe! From the look of your posts, I'd say your suffering from oxygen deprivation right now! Breathe deeper...
wrote
Some people will never get it, KJ. You're right about CO. Co is a result of incomplete combustion. Period! ANY GAS BURNING APPLIANCE can experience incomplete combustion for a variety of reasons. Having a non-vented natural gas or propane burning appliance inside a dwelling is dangerous. Those who believe otherwise are playing Russian Roulette, and some will be nominated for the Darwinian Awards.
YES, they can be very dangerous.
That is if you think dieing is dangerous.
Did you miss the "in the last 10+ years" comment? (Or should I say "induced draft furnaces = no heat")
BTW, many "older" furnaces have manual reset spill switches. (this comment doesn't say "all")
Read UL-2034 and you'll know exactly what it states.
You don't have to install one to "be around" one as stated in the question above.
KY? What exactly are you a pro of?
Dumb piece of s*it!
HAHAHA
-Canadian Heat
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A pro of finding asshole Canadian hacks like you. Bubba
Do you find it hard to take your foot out of your mouth, when your heads up your asshole bubba?
HAHAHAHA
Or is that KYpro up there?
BAHAHA
-Canadian Heat
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No, the hardest part is keeping your head out of my pants. Cant you find a sheep, moose or buffalo to f*ck? Bubba
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