Amazing HVAC Techs

[Richard Thomas]

Given your first paragraph, I would suggest that they would be better served with a private BBS or news server. As you say, usenet is public and unmoderated. Add into that that most people who even know about it are going to be at least mildly technically competent and of course when they have problems with their AC they're (as I did) going to ask in here.

It might be easier to view such queries as "Something is up with my AC, is this really something that warrants calling someone out or will he just wiggle a connector and laugh at me as he drives off down the street lighting his cigar with one of the handful of $100s I just handed him". If you (not you specifically) can't provide a civil answer, everyone is probably best served by no answer. A snarky answer just adds to the image that makes people post here instead of just going ahead and calling a professional out straight away anyway. But again, this is usenet and people are free to post what they want.

FWIW, it is not just this group, I have seen this in other trade newsgroups also. Contrast this with most computer based groups where if you demonstrate that you have at least researched the problem a little and you'll probably find people who will help you. Consider that and you'll maybe understand a bit better the people who come on here asking questions and why the attitude some of these questions get back seems somewhat uncalled for. OTOH, go on those same computer newsgroups with no research and you'll get called out just as fiercely as anthing you see on here.

Rich

[James]

Even using your definition hvac is not a science. The science involved would be thermodynamics. Everything we do involves science. You are using science to make a post to call me an idiot. If you fix your computer by replacing the floppy drive does that make you a computer scientist? If you want to base when it is science and when it is not on a certain level of complexity then it becomes subjective. How about the guy fixing a nuclear reactor, to him fixing a residential ac might not meet the same subjective level of complexity.

The point I was countering was that the other poster wanted to claim it was science because he experimented as part of his job. Any outcome of a change in factors involving a residential ac is completely predictable based on already known laws of physics. Given ALL the facts someone sitting in an office could arrive at the outcome. Expermentation is the proof or disproof of a theorum. Very few people in the world experiment. Most repeat experiments that have already been done.

Happy t'day btw :-)

[Mo Hoaner]

WTF exactly do you mean it's not a science? Thermodynamics = Science Air Flow calculations = Science Analysis and correction of any issue in a system requires a scientific approach to determine if the cause is electrical, mechanical, or chemical in origin. To do otherwise is known - not just in the HVAC field either - as shotgunning it.

Yeah... Say that next time a reversing valve gets sticky. What about all the Ho Moaners that have major problems - up to and including damage - with something as simple as replacing a thermostat?

You forgot about electricity. If you stick to the things that the average Ho Moaner is qualified to do, there is absolutely no issue with fuel gas or refrigerant. You are not going to get yourself hurt hosing the dog piss off the condenser before it eats the aluminum, or changing filters. Hey, a real smart one might even know how to do a halfway decent job of cleaning an evaporator coil, pan, and drain line, or change a thermostat

[Mo Hoaner]

Bzzzzt.... Wrong answer. Try again.

I'm assuming that you screwed up, and really meant "But if a midsized UNIX machine powers up but won't bootstrap can you fix it?"

You mean like a VME bus box with a MVME167 running System V. Well, first start by looking at the messages from the console port, and..... Well, you wouldn't understand. That was a bad choice of a question to try to show how much more you know that the HVAC "monkeys" don't. You would be really surprised how many environmental management systems use those "midsized UNIX machines". Occasionally, after it's scientifically determine that that there coil ain't beer can cold, a discussion will be had with an environmental / energy management system based on.... Yup, you guessed right, a midsized UNIX machine. I've even had to resolve issues where it powers up, but won't boot. Hint: sometimes they drop to monitor....

[RSCamaro]

The answer to #1. is stability

#2. What you are probably looking for is a vacuum. There are many other conditions necessary though for an absorber to operate.

...Ron

--

68'RS Camaro 88'Formula 00'GT Mustang

[Noon-Air]

Was it the owner of the company that came out?? or just some flunky wanna be tech, collecting a paycheck on commissions?? You should have politely said "Thank you", then called the company back and told them to send out a *REAL* tech, not just a compressor sales person. You can't diagnose *ANYTHING* without actually checking and taking measurements. But then you already knew that, right??

You actually believed the compressor sales person when he didn't even take a meter off the truck??

Did you not tell him exactly what you wanted and not even give him a chance to diagnose the problems??

Did you not tell him exactly what you wanted and not even give him a chance to diagnose the problems??

And you have not yet had the system serviced in a year??? Oh, thats right... the house is only a year old.... probably a "spec house" done by the lowest bidder.

No fraud if you told him what was wrong with it and you told him what you wanted. He was just following your directions.

Knock yourself out... The City of Hattiesburg, MS won't even talk to you about a license unless you are a *MASTER TECH* with a minimum of 2 years of college/tech school and 5 years of OJT working for a Master Tech. I don't know where your at, but the requirements keep getting tougher.

[Oscar_Lives]

Uh, a f****ng phase change?

Now, please go away...

[Oscar_Lives]

Oh shit, another round of unsolicited advise and dicipline from another pissy homoaner/wanna-be Internet SuperStar....

As you say, usenet is public

Yeah, when Bubba leaves the skylight open....

Do you think that anyone here gives a flying f*ck what you think? Do you think anyone here cares to hear any of your self-proclaimed wanna-be Internet Superstar shit spouting?

But

Then maybe it is YOU who is f***ed up. Maybe YOUR understanding of the world around you is f***ed.

Contrast this with most computer based groups where

So f****ng what? This ain't no computer forum with faggy computer geeks hanging out.

Yeah, and you are free to go away, so do it.

[RSCamaro]

Every time I come up to any piece of equipment that has a problem, it is an unknown. I follow certain rules to come to a conclusion just like a scientist working on a cure for idiocy does.

Yes, I can and will say that upwards to 25% of techs out there are smarter than your general PHD chemist. Apple and oranges really. In fact a hvac service technician would have an easier time learning chemistry than the chemist learning hvac-r.

I don't think that it matters what anyone writes here. I believe that you are prejudiced against anyone that has made their chosen profession in a mechanical trade. Good luck to you. I hope that you have no need for a service tech any time soon.

...Ron

68'RS Camaro 88'Formula 00'GT Mustang

[Bubba]

Exactly! It's your fault. If I told you that I am the President are you really going to believe me just because I said so?? Dont be so gullable. You are the one making a decision. YOU have to make it an informed one.

I am not making you believe me. I am pissing out advice. You are free to do whatever the hell you want with it. Check it our or dismiss it. Its totally up to you.

Yes, I read your previous comment. Licensed? Hell, if you really look you will see that most of them are not. That's a quick tip they arent professional. You can disagree with me all you want that its not your responsibility to discover the right guy but in the end it is your money. You can piss it away foolishly or you can do your homework and find "the right guy".

Yes, for the most part it would. I would first do my homework on what establishment I want doing my repair work. Then I would check which mechanic was better/worse. Ive done it. Takes a bit of time but it works. I had one at a Ford dealer stick a BB in a vacuum line to my EGR valve to stop it from backfiring. I found the BB and had a field day with them. Took it back and showed the mechanic and the manager. Lots of jaws dropping but in the end I got it fixed and fixed right.

SEE! You proved my point once again. You did no checking of references. You went down to the furnace, looked at the name on the brochure and figured all would be well. No checking whatsoever and you got exactly what you asked for. Familiar?? No. You had an installer install it and a tech to come out and fix it who never saw your furnace since he didnt install it. He just fixes them. And by the way, a year is more than enough time to check out a good HVAC company.

Now your being just plain f***in stupid. Id NEVER claim loyalty to someone in this business perpetrating fraud. IF you were screwed you need to handle it. Thats what lawyers are for (or at least are supposed to be for). Im not the one that got hosed. You are. Deal with it and handle it. Just last week I turned in a guy that had no Masters, no Occupational and was doing work in broad daylight on the side. He was breaking the law. I have all the credentials and follow the law (as best I know). He didnt. This was the 2nd time I caught him. His court date is coming and from what I understand, he is going to jail. Sorry bout his luck.

Cool. Start your own business. Its soooooooooooooooo easy. Everyone can do it. Bubba

[James]

[Ken]

The OWNER of the company.

We seem to be mixing two different events. The event above dealt with the complete replacement of my heating and AC units after having been in service for 30 years.

The diagnosis of a faulty compressor occurred only one year after those old units were originally installed. That WAS diagnosed without taking measurements. That person DID NOT own the company.

Your point is right on, I DID NOT believe him. That is why I asked him to leave and fixed it myself. I knew he was not obtaining enough information to effectively make such a diagnosis. He was apparently on a commission and wanted to sell something.

I am again talking about the installation of the new units. I pointed out the installation problems and he DID correct them. There wasn't much to diagnose.

One problem was he installed the gas cutoff valve for the furnace between two pieces of flexible tubing. If I am not mistaken, the gas cutoff valve is required to be attached to rigid pipe.

Another problem was a duct was so poorly connected to the plenum that you could insert your finger in the gap. His solution was to duct tape over the gap. My solution was to narrow the gap with sheet metal.

Yet another problem was using wire nuts to splice a short Romex cable going to the furnace. Then he wrapped the wire nuts with Duct tape rather than enclose the connections in a electrical box.

I could cite others, but you get the idea.

Before he even bid on the job, I told him I expected a quality job. Also, that if he could not do it, he should not even bid. He promised a quality job and then inspected for what was needed. After that he made his bid, and I paid him what he asked. I did not squeeze him for a lower price.

Again, you seem confused about the two different events. The bad compressor diagnosis occurred some 29 years ago when the house was almost new. The unit that failed to start was only one year old at that time. It was this unit that he said needed a new compressor. It is this unit that I fixed in five minutes and continued to run for 29 years!!

The replacement of the heating and AC units occurred about six months ago after the original units had been in service for 30 years. It is this job that was bid on and promised to be a "Quality" job. I hope this clarifies the situation.

HE told me the compressor was bad. He was WRONG! For as you said, he could NOT have diagnosed the problem without having taken any measurements. I never told him what was wrong or what to do.

I never said your job could be performed well by a dummy. There are very few jobs today that do not require training and some degree of expertise. If you are a good HVAC person and do good work, more power to you. I wish they all did.

I studied for many years to be able just to learn my trade, and the learning never ended. But I thought those who failed to take pride in their job like I did were giving my trade a bad name. I hope you see it the same way.

[Nathan In Montana]

of course not, thats something you could easily google. i notice that you never told me how many microns of humidity was safe (hint: before mold sets in).

[Oscar_Lives]

Too late. Mold already set in...

[AKS]

"microns of humidity" Hi Nathan the Relative Humidity is never measured in Microns but in percent for must of us techs. However in Engineering it is measured in Grams per pound of dry air. now I have no ability to gave you formula but I am sure if you are interested you will find it Dido say that

[Nathan In Montana]

.....it was a trick question intended to stumble him to make a point.

[Chris]

UVC the dam mold!

UVC I tell you

[Chris]

In defense of Bubba,

During a moment of soberness, he made an excellent post on how to find competent HVAC professionals.

His advice was to call the local hardware dealers and ask which company they would use. Since that time, I have developed a feeling of respect for him.

It is just unfortunate that I have a preconception about people called Bubba.

[Bubba]

Thus I have completed my objective (once again). Now let me, let you in on a secret. My real name isnt Bubba. I hope this doesnt disappoint you too much. :-) Oh, and one more thing. I dont need you defending me. I do quite well all by myself, thank you. Bubba

[Ken]

Dear Bubba,

I think you should re-read your posts. You might just decide you should take him up on the "Defending" part. Then again if you read ONLY your posts and nothing else, they might make sense to you?