And some people say there's no God..........

Then... he fell on his head?

Sorry for his loss.

Yes it is.

Mark.

For you - you don't get to speak for anyone else. Which is a very good thing.

Actually some of us find it quite easy and naural. I think I smell jelousy.

If only you had the brains evolution gave a spider...

Mark.

Wrong. It was just _built_ in less than three hours. It wasn't "designed" at all. That organism was executing a biological program originating in a combination of its genetic heritage and environmental influences. Cool, huh?

Now, why the _fuck_ did you crosspost this to alt.atheism?

Only if you're blindly ignorant.

How, why did you crosspost this to alt.atheism, and having done so, how can you possibly be surprised at the response?

All that so the spider can kill and eat things. I wonder how the moth feels about it. And just think, 6000 years ago, when there was no death, the spider used to catch flying grapes in the web.

As "sky pixies" are entirely an invention of Soppy Septic, he, as their sole inventor, would be the only one to complain about other's use of them.

Well, you can prove it yourself. Aren't you now reading this, and didn't a previous moment happen, now another, now another? Time/space continuum. It's pretty popular among the quantum physicists.

In Buddhism, everything we see, do, things done to us, by us is all based on previous lifetimes and how our karma ripens in this lifetime. So, with each life, provided I have enough merit to take a human rebirth, we come closer and closer to being able to reach an enlightened state and no longer have karma, the karma is fully purified after many lifetimes of practice, meditation, etc.

I am indeed saying that everything is void of independant arising. Everything is dependant on previous moments of itself, and is empty. Emptiness is a huge part of Buddhism's delight. I'll give an example of something they did in the film "Little Buddha." A Lama was trying to explain emptiness to a man. He filled the cup with tea then broke the cup aka the vessel for the tea. After the cup is broken, it is no longer a cup. But the tea is still tea. Contents and container. The container changes, but the contents do not.

This is a basic belief and yes it does require a relative amount of faith, but it's pretty much in line with quantum physics. If you wipe the tea up off the floor with a towel, and then wring it out, you still have tea.

How are things beginningless? Well, can you trace back your every thought and every action you did in just one day? In one hour? I mean every single thought, glimpse, notion, action, every snap of a finger etc. Buddhists say there are 64 thoughts to snapping your fingers.

So look at something inanimate. Those examples are also beginningless. A simple one would be a rubber gasket. First, a person has to become interested in growing rubber trees, then then need the seeds or plants which are delivered by a truck, driven by a driver, who needs gas, which comes from refineries, which comes from oil wells, which have pipes built by people and the driver uses a truck, how many people were responsible for the building of the truck, each part, machinists, assemblers, engineers, designers, who makes the glass, how is that delivered...and this is a HUGELY brief explanation that everything is absolutely dependant on something else and the previous moment of itself. Else, we'd all be here for a moment then gone. By the time the two dollar gasket reaches its final destination, one is baffled that it doesn't cost a million dollars!

Look at what goes into a simple pencil, trace it all back to the acorn if you can. The pencil is 25 cents. How? Amazing.

So this theory is certainly more tangible than saying a man in the sky called god created everything. This method come about by deep thought and meditation, self exploration, etc.

I disagree with those physicists; time is an illusion, not a place, a thing, or a dimension. The past no longer exists. The future does not exist yet. Humans think in terms of time only because we can remember the past and deduce and evaluate evidence of past events.

I think you've mixed Buddhism with Hinduism. But I guess you're allowed.

And the cup is still a cup, just broken. It can be repaired. Apparently Buddhists think anecdotes about common things have some kind of profound meaning and are explanations, but they're not.

Again, time's an illusion. And memory, for whatever reason, is faulty.

People can say anything.

Exactly my point: we are here for just a moment. Only "now" really exists.

Deducing that things which happened in the past affect this moment or the future is not very amazing. It's obvious; no meditation and exploration is necessary. And it's obvious there are no gods.

No I didn't. I am a student of Lama Zopa Rinpoche and Venerable Robina for years now. I've been to His Holiness' teachings and I am a practitioner. This is how we view things. Maybe you are not aware that Buddha Shakyamuni (historical Buddha) is from India and was a Hindu practitioner until he found The Middle Way.

No, it is no longer a cup because it must function as a cup to be one. Because it is empty of inherent traits, it is now a bunch of pieces of broken clay. It is no longer a cup, but the tea is still tea. Our minds are the tea. It goes from vessel to vessel. Everyone dies, but nobody is dead.

So your answer is no. You cannot. Time is a measure. Eventually when people become fully awake, time is absolutely an illusion. In life as a lay person, someone who is not enlightened still have a measure of time even if it is illusionary. Actually, the term Buddha used is delusion. We delude ourselves. This is all the pollution we are cleaning out when we meditate.

Does water look clear? It's H2O, right? Not really. All water has a lot more in it that hydrogen and oxygen but we don't call the pollution H2OP45. We're still deluded and believe it is water, clear and without any other element.

I guess you are just cranky and unwilling to believe anything nor are you willing to consider another way of thinking or experiencing. .

Nothing I said is in opposition to your contention. Each moment coming from must then come from a prior moment in order for it to be thrust into this moment. I agree there is no past, no present.

So you are saying you are enlightened? No exploration is necessary? How about someone who never saw a television or read a book. How do they draw a conclusion? Self exploration is always necessary for growth. But, I am coming from a different component than you are. Mine is spirituality, yours is scientific (or so it seems). I am an atheist, no doubt about it. That doesn't make me void of beliefs or faith.

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 08:33:58 -0400, "Victor Faraday" wrote: - Refer:

1. You saw something awesome.
2. You cannot personally understand it.
3. Therefore there is an invisible old man in the sky.

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On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 10:46:19 -0400, "ZenIsWhen" wrote: - Refer:

It's not hard to gain a mental edge over the standard Christian. I am not surprised that a tiny spider managed it.

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On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 23:15:34 GMT, "Tough Tonto" wrote: - Refer:

Don't worry: it's "coming".

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On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 14:55:21 -0400, "Victor Faraday" wrote: - Refer:

Bullshit.

More lies and bullshit.

I thought you christbots had rules against "bearing false witness"?

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I just knew that one very stupid person would not answer the question.

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Push to shove, whatever enriches someone's spirituality or kindness or consciousness is a good thing. I don't believe in a creator, but I have no problem with those who do. And orb spiders are indeed awesome. I don't believe a god created them, but if someone else does and it touches their heart making them a better person, it's great. Don't you think?

Hmmmm. It *is* amazing to see nature at work. In the case of a spider and it's web: seems pretty 'natural' to me. But then, some people would see the 'miracle' of the construction of a spider-web as proof that Jesus walked on water, raised people from the dead, and in another 'guise', created the universe. Now that's what I call a *leap* of faith.

Greywolf

The most accomplished scientists tend to be less religious than "average" scientists, who are, in turn, less religious than non-scientists.

No, actually, imagining a Designer with inscrutable, magical properties is a lame way to "explain" something that is difficult to explain otherwise. We are all still waiting for an explanation of the Designer. Scientists like finding explanations; non-scientists, particularly theists, like things to have explanations. If there are no *good* explanations, a poor one will do.

The universe is so complex, I would guess the gods' brains are so tiny as to be completely nonexistent.

Do you still say that when they fly planes into buildings?