Whirlpool Fridge lock up during an apparent power glitch

My less than a year old Whirlpool French door fridge locked up in the off state from an apparent power glitch. There was no indication on the control panel that it was off. Unfortunately we were away on a one week vacation. Of course, everything was lost. When we returned home, we found the unit at about 58 degrees in the fridge and about the same in the freezer. The ice in the ice maker had melted and seeped through the gaskets warping the laminate floor. I played the Microsoft game and attempted a reboot. First I pushed the buttons to turn off the unit and it responded with "cooling off" on the display. And then I pushed the buttons to turn it on. Amazingly, it started and ran. After a few hours it was up and running perfectly. BTW, the clock on the microwave (WP) had blanked and the the wall oven indicated PF for power failure, but it had the correct time ... minus one minute. So apparently it was a very short power on/off thing. When I called WP the person was very rude. They call their call center the "Customer Experience Center" and boy, was it an experience. She said the unit functioned properly and WP takes no responsibility in any of it. All she kept saying was that the unit works perfectly. BTW, I had a WP for the previous 6 years and only replaced it because we wanted the French doors instead of a side-by-side. It just fit better in the kitchen. Anyway, it never did anything like this in its 6 years and I assume even now it is probably still working for the person that bought it. This is just plain crazy. These things should have built in safeties for this kind of thing. I worked for 25 years in industry designing fault tolerant systems and something like this just could not be tolerated. Am I supposed to sit there and watch the unit 24/7/365, or hire someone when on vacation, to come in an check it? I did find a nice little product for just over $100 that would report the temperature inside the fridge to the company's cloud and when it went out of range, they would send off an email or text to me. Still not good if I am in Europe or something like that, but, it could send to a friend with a house key. BTW, WP is coming out later this week to check it out. There seems to be one other problem and this is the water dispenser operation. It seems to have shifted to a measured fill and I can't seem to make it go back to providing water only when the paddle is pushed as it was before. If the repair person tells me that they are all this way (the power down thing) I will demand that WP remove the box permanently. Sorry for being so verbose.

Reply to
Art Todesco
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I feel your pain. I would expect a fridge to restart after a power outage. Did the customer service person say that it's designed not to, ie if you cycle the breaker, it won't restart? I would suspect that what happened is some unusual aspect to the power interruption, eg low sustained voltage or something caused it to go into some unusual state. But it's clearly not a good thing. I've never had a fridge or freeze that did that. Did you do any experimenting with cycling the breaker to see if you can duplicate it?

Reply to
trader_4

The joys of having microprocessors control everything. There may be a firmware update for your refrigerator. Contact someone who actually works on these refrigerators to get the real story.

Reply to
John G

Seems like every device I own that has any kind of a microcomputer in it, needs to be rebooted at least once per year.

But having to reboot a refrigerator to get it to cool again is absolutely totally unacceptable.

Maybe you can get W to exchange it for a model without a microcomputer control?

Reply to
me

Wow, that is completely unacceptable. We bought a new Samsung French door and I may just cut the power to see what happens. To not reset is a major problem if you are away for a day.

I'd certainly try to find out what the problem was. Even though they have exclusions in the warranty, if it is a design problem you may be able to get something out of them for your losses. Refrigerators should come back on with no intervention.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

It evidently isn't just a Whirlpool problem. I did a search for refrigerator power glitch lockup. Samsung Galaxy can do the same thing. or

formatting link

Reply to
Dean Hoffman

The good old mechanical devices seem to work for years and not give any problems. The computers seem to have all kinds of problems if there is a voltage spike or sometimes just have a problem with them that no one can find.

At work there was a microprocessor that was used to detect the level in a vessel. It worked like a giger counter for radiation. We had about

30 of them. When they were first installed we found they had a habbit of locking up at some level. That caused either over flow or running empty. That could be a $ 50,000 problem. Some point level detectors were installed to warn us of the problem.

The factory came out with the 'solution' There was a 'watch dog timer' put in the softwear. Every day at 7 AM the instrument would do a reset. Seemed to work most of the time. We also had many high dollar controlers that seemed to hang up and the standard 'cure' was to cut the power off for a few seconds and restrt.

Reply to
Ralph Mowery

On Sun, 17 Apr 2016 07:48:05 -0400, Art Todesco wrote in

Thanks for reporting the experience. Let us know how it turns out.

Reply to
CRNG

Wonder if the problem is the microprocessor got zapped from a power surge that accompanied the power failure?

Reply to
Wade Garrett

That makes me feel just great. Bought a Samsung a few month ago. At least a couple of times a year the power goes out from something, even though it is usually just a couple of minutes.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

Use a compressor restart protector with about a 5 minute restore delay mounted in a box with a plug and receptacle for the refrigerator and power.

Reply to
Mr.E

It's just a bad design.

Unfortunately, most people "writing code" are "programmers", nowadays. Writing software for a "computer" and writing software for an "appliance" (embedded system) are entirely different experiences and require very different skill sets. Just because there's a computer *in* it doesn't MAKE IT a computer!

[Amazing how many people are naive about this -- which is exemplified in your reported experience. Programmers and managers think "code is code". Their goal is to get something that *looks* like its correct in the least amount of time and for the least number of dollars -- out of the greatest number of interchangeable brains.

Just like doing the books for a small Ma&Pa firm should be the exact same sort of experience as doing the books for a large multinational: ledgers are ledgers, right? Or working on a lawnmower engine the same as a big V8?]

And, of course, designing the *hardware* for an embedded system is an entirely different issue than designing (or *buying*, COTS) the hardware for your "computer"

Install a normally closed pushbutton switch in the power line to your PC. *Briefly* push it to interrupt the power to the PC and see what happens. Will it reboot? Or not? (I have machines that fall into both categories). The more oversized the power supply (i.e., UNDERSIZED your current utilization), the greater the chance that the computer will weather the outage -- until, of course, the outage is long enough that the power supply can't maintain the load!

If it reboots, it *won't* bring all your applications back and leave you in the exact same state that things were in when the power "glitched". it won't even remember whether you had NumLock and CapsLock on or off on your keyboard (Gee, how hard would it be to remember whether two *bits* were 0 or 1?). etc. The "computer" expects YOU to fix things to your liking.

An appliance, OTOH, is expected to REMEMBER what it was doing and continue as if nothing had happened!

As appliances have to be able to run 24/7/365, they have to address these sorts of problems (and others).

When power is applied, the entire circuit must stabilize before the processor can "come out of reset". There may be several voltages that have to stabilize in order for it to be able to perform its intended function. In addition, there are usually very precise constraints on exactly HOW these voltages stabilize: X must be "up" to its tolerance before Y by at least Z milliseconds -- but no more than W!

When power *nominally* goes away, all of these supplies drop to 0 in a predictable manner. And, the process can repeat.

Exceptions to these "textbook" sequences can actually result in electronic devices "latching" (where nothing the processor will do CAN undue the effects as it happens IN the semiconductors).

You can design to handle "blackouts" (total loss of power), "brownouts" (reduced power) and "dimouts" (brief outages). But, you have to do this deliberately: "how should I react in each of these cases?"

And, in each of these scenarios, there are "I/O's" that must be treated in specific ways. E.g., you can't just let the compressor turn on while you "gather your wits" -- thinking that you can turn it back OFF once you're refocused on the task at hand (what happens if you never get back to "normal"? Do you let the compressor stay in that running state? How do you stop it if you've crashed??)

Likewise, you can't just power up and decide: "Oh, refrigerator is warm, let me turn on the compressor, as intended!" Because you

*don't* know what happened while power was off -- nor how long it was off (unless someone has deliberately taken extraordinary design measures to provide this information to you!), you can't know if the compressor WAS on just a few moments ago. In which case, your turning it on now will overstress the motor (trying to start into a large load).

On top of all that, you have to hope that the software never encounters an anomaly that it isn't prepared to handle (in the simplest sense, this is a "bug". But, might actually be some characteristic of the system that rarely occurs and the designer wasn't prepared to address (e.g., an underdamped system "rings") -- "Gee, I never saw that before! But, yeah, the theory SAYS it can happen...".

Finally, you have to hope the system never glitches due to random failures. Even "transient" failures. E.g., alpha particle radiation can "flip" bits in memory as can "cosmic rays". Likewise, "electrical noise" can cause signals to appear to be other than they truly are. Your PC probably has ECC memory in it to detect and correct these intermittent errors; most appliances don't! (cost constraints)

[Most "programmers" are clueless on all of these issues. "I stored a 27 in this memory location, so, there *will* be a 27 there when I go to look it up, later! Right?"]
Reply to
Don Y

The mechanical devices weren't called on to do the same sorts of things that the electronic things do -- nor at the same price-points!

Look at a simple set-back (programmable) thermostat. No-brainer in terms of functionality. How would you implement it, with electromechanical devices? Put 4 thermostats together and have a clockwork mechanism that connected *one* of the thermostats to the wires that actually talk to the "plant"?

Are you sure the "watchdog timer" operated in that manner? Most watchdog timers need to be "fed" periodically by "well behaving" software -- "pet the watchdog". Failing to do so results in the watchdog unilaterally resetting the device

(note that this assumes there is a means by which the device can be reliably reset -- that will handle all possible failure/lockup modes!)

Even the design of the watchdog circuitry itself requires careful consideration to ensure that it:

- doesn't activate unless actually needed

- can't be falsely placated by software that *appears* to be working (but, in reality, is stuck in an endless "pet the watchdog" loop)

E.g., I design products that often have to work, reliably, in very hostile environments; places where the "user" is deliberately trying to subvert "proper" operation (think: devices that are driven by or control access to MONEY). If a user (adversary) discovers that glitching the power will result in obtaining something "for free" that he'd otherwise have to pay for, then you can BET that folks will be glitching the power -- and posting YouTube videos about how to do it -- all the time!

Most designers/developers aren't accustomed to working in this sort of environment. These are the same sorts who leave security holes in programs because they assumed no one would ever type in a FIRST NAME that was 395 letters long! (hint: there ARE no first names that are that long; the user was deliberately trying to BREAK your code!!)

Reply to
Don Y

My early 1970's avocado green GE is getting all frosted up again after

6 months or maybe a year.... which is kind of to be expected since it wasn't a frost free refrigerator to start with. Along these lines, I've got a fancy arse Samsung big screen smart TV with a great picture but to use the sleep timer, well I don't because it takes to many clicks in various places to set the sleep timer with the remote and it's just to much trouble so I let the damn thing stay on all night, but I have an older Emerson with a sleep button right on the remote that I can and do use.
Reply to
My 2 Cents

SWMBO relies heavily on the sleep timer for her "stereo". But, it is implemented with ease of use in mind:

- turn on the power

- press button repeatedly until desired time is displayed She knows that pressing the button 10 times will result in a 2:00 delay. Button has lots of tactile feedback so you *know* when it has been pressed (not true of all remotes). So, she doesn't even have to look at the display.

Biggest user interface "FAIL" I've encountered was a MUTE function that automatically UN-muted when you "did anything"! So, if you muted the TV to field a phone call (or, allow someone else in the room to do so), you couldn't channel surf -- without hitting the DOWN VOLUME key, repeatedly (the first press will unmute the TV!) before you start flipping channels.

Reply to
Don Y

he buttons to turn off the unit and it responded with "cooling off" on the display. And then I pushed the buttons to turn it on. Amazingly, it start ed and ran. After a few hours it

t, needs to be rebooted at least once per year.

ly totally unacceptable.

Some microcontrollers have a built-in watchdog timer, for use in critical apps. Once activated, the software has to write a certain data value to a certain I/O location to keep it from forcing a reset. Good chance that kind of feature would have saved Philo's food.

Reply to
trader_4

That depends on how the failure manifested itself.

If the processor has "gone off into left field", most MCU's (single-chip computers found in many appliances) have provisions for a watchdog timer to reset the device (if not appropriately "stroked").

[Many also have black- and brown-out protection; whether it is used properly is a different story!]

But, it is relatively easy to write software that fails in such a way as to keep the watchdog happy! (thereby defeating its purpose). "Gee, I need to stroke/pet the watchdog regularly. Why don't I put that code in this timing loop that ALWAYS runs (interrupt routine) EVEN WHEN THE SOFTWARE HAS CRASHED!"

If, OTOH, the failure is the result of a hardware issue (e.g., improper sequencing of power supplies, persistent voltages present on I/O pins before the pins can be programmed for their desired purpose, etc.) then the fix will be a new revision of the controller board.

[Finding that this is, indeed, the case will be a major hurdle in most cases! Manufacturers aren't eager to disclose these sorts of DESIGN errors as that would mean everyone gets a freebie repair. Instead, they'll gamble that you won't experience the problem until after your warranty has expired.]

IIRC, Elecrolux had an issue with the location of the temperature sensor in one (or more?) of their refrigerator models. The sensor would think it was comfortable at the desired temperature -- but the food was many degrees warmer than it indicated. (I guess expecting a refrigerator to maintain a desired temperature wasn't one of their design goals?)

Note that the same sorts of problems existed in The Good Old Days (do you really think the dial on your oven was "calibrated" to YOUR particular oven's performance? (hint: remove knob, flip it over and examine back)

Reply to
Don Y

Is it possible the power glitch was very short, just long enough that the c ompressor stopped, and then power came back on while there was still compre ssed Freon between the compressor and the expansion valve, and the unit tur ned off to avoid having the compressor try to start against the existing ba ck pressure?

Reply to
hrhofmann

A watchdog timer may be the wrong term for what they did, but that is the way it worked. The device had 2 memories in it. One was the working or running memory and there there was another memory EEPROM. Every morning that thing would cause a blip in the process because it put out bad data for about 30 seconds while the EEPROM was downloaded back into the main working memory.

That was that companies solution to the locking up problem. I don't recall them locking up any more after that 'fix'. Crappy way of doing things, but changing out the equipment for another kind was not an option.

Reply to
Ralph Mowery

Sad that your Management tolerated that from a vendor/supplier!

If you had a clock that had to be reset each day at 7AM, you'd have to wonder why the CORRECT time was ONLY important at 7AM and not at 6:55A.

Or, how could you have confidence that it was even operating properly at 7:03A?

I don't understand why people tolerate buggy software/systems. You wouldn't tolerate a (new!) vehicle that "stalled" once a day. (or even once a week) So, why put up with a (software) product that is effectively doing the same?

Reply to
Don Y

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