Sliding compound miter saws.

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On 1/26/2012 1:17 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

With a tool running with the CT"x", you simply do not hear the vac. One big plus that I never considered, the Festool vacs roll quite easily by simply pulling on the hose and do not tip over like some other brands.
Why $550 for a bloody vacuum?

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On 1/25/2012 8:45 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

Meh ...
Plunge cuts deluxe: scroll right from this picture to see how it's done, with the best tool for the job:
https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJustStuff#5677888839479418594
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Hmmm...A $550 saw to cut a hole in a chicken coop? Irony abounds. Oh, excuse me. A coup de poulet, er, poulailler.
What does the EQ 55 have that the SP6000K1 doesn't? I mean, besides the fluorescent green plastic?
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On 1/26/2012 4:10 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

C-less, look at it this way. If you were really that dense your ass would have been plonked ten years ago. ;)
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On 1/26/2012 4:10 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

Class? '~)
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wrote:

I believe you misspelled "crass", sir, unless you're turning Japanese, I think you're turning Japanese, I really thinks so. <da da da da>
Maybe you meant "the snooty Cherman name".
-- Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act, the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything. -- George Lois
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On 1/26/2012 4:10 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

Ok, getting serious here, something to consider.
All things being equal, consider the tracks lengths.
The Makita comes with a 55" track and apparently the only other track that is available is a 118" track. That track is going to cost you at least $175 plus shipping. In reality you "can" use the 55" track to cross cut a sheet of plywood but you do have to pay close attention to track overhang on both sides. If you don't have enough track over hang to begin with you have to start with a partial plunge cut and saw will tend to want to push backwards. Festool provides a stop for the track behind the saw to prevent any backwards movement during a plunge cut. If you have plenty of over hang to start with you will not have enough to guide the saw straight all the way through the cut on the far end with either brand.
Basically you want the saw base to be in full contact with the track at the beginning and end of the cut with the blade not touching the wood. With a combined total of 7" of the track overhanging on both ends the saw base is not going to be in full contact with the track either at the beginning or end of the cut or both. The alternative is to use the optional 118", track with a minimum of 35" of track hanging over on both ends. Where are you going to store a 10 foot track? It is likely the track will bow up in the middle and you really do want the track to lay flat to gain full advantage of its ability to grip and stay where you put it before you set the saw on it. And you will be setting the saw on the part of the track that is hanging over the edge of the work, further increasing the chance of the track moving on the other end. So a track can be too long too. AND if you are cutting Baltic birch plywood the 55" simply is not going to work at all, the 118" track will be mandatory.
Not saying your choice here is a bad one at all, the Festool has the same basic problem however Festool has a solution. Festool tracks can be attached to each other and are available in numerous lengths up to just over 16' down to 32". I have a 55" and a 75" track. When working with full sheets of plywood I never use anything shorter than the 75" track and when ripping full length I use the 75" and 55" together. I mostly use the 55" for small panels and to lengthen the 75" track.
Having said that if you happen to put Festool back into the realm of possible choices do not rule out the TS75 track saw, there is not as much price difference as you might think.
The price difference between the TS55 and the TS75 is $130. $525. vs $655. The TS55 comes with the 55" track, the TS75 comes with the 75" track. Seriously if you intend to get as much use out of these saws as they are capable of you are going to need to buy an extra track so that you can at least rip a sheet of plywood and or an 8' board, even with the Makita. So, if you buy the TS55 you will need to add a 75" track at $175. If you buy a TS75 you will need to buy a 55" track at $98.
Considering that the TS55 and two tracks will cost you $700 and the TS75 and two tracks will cost you $753. Now the difference in price is only $53 vs. $130. To combine two tracks you will need a pair of attachment rails for about $30.
Granted the approximate price of the Makita with the 55" and the 118" track will only be $567 vs $700. or $53 more for the larger saw but with the Festool you have tracks that are both easy to store and or transport. If you are toing to a job site you are going to be hauling a 55" and 75" track vs a 118" track. With either brand you want to be careful with the tracks, you really do not want to bend or bow one and the shorter they are the less likely this will happen.
Just something to consider if you plan to use the saw and both tracks very much. And something else to consider, you will use this saw much more than you might think so ease of storage and transport of the tracks to a different location is going to become important.
These saws are great for putting a straight glue line edge on an 8'~9' S2S board with the 55" and 75" tracks and or the 118" Makita track. And that happens much faster than on the jointer. One pass, not several.
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wrote:

An additional 55" track and connectors will run $130, incl. s/h.

How much of a problem is it to stop the saw in mid-cut, shift the guide, and start up again? Doesn't the guide practically guarantee a clean cut?

UGH!
Or the pair of 55s.

What are the advantages of the larger saw? Has your TS55 every bogged down in a cut?

Ain't -that- a ripoff? They look like pieces of 1/4" bar stock.

FYI, I believe the Festool can ride a Makita track and both use the same connector. Look at the ends of the compared tracks in this article. http://www.popularwoodworking.com/tools/tool-reviews/plunge-cut_saws

I hear that. I'd build a lightweight carrier for them. I've already lost one half of the 8' guide I had for cutting ply to the back of my truck tool storage area. <sigh> Luckily, I got 30+ years out of it. That's $2.50/yr.

Ayup. That's the kind of data I'm after, and which has finally sold me on the track saw. Thanks for the detailed info.
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On 1/27/2012 9:08 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

I think the easiest carrier might be a 6" piece of pvc sewer pipe. Cap one end and put a cleanout on the other. Put a handle in the middle to handle the beast. That will keep the track from getting banged about.

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On 1/27/2012 8:40 PM, tiredofspam wrote:

Not sure about the Makita track but the Festool track is just under 7.5" wide.
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wrote:

I'd use tubatwos, dado down the middle for a separator, and mahogany door skin for the covers and center divider.

Did you see the end shot of the 3 in the PW article?
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On 1/27/2012 8:08 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

Doh! ;~) That would make sense. But remember for ease of use you want the saw to be clear of the sheet on both ends of the panel. 110" -96" "/2 = 7" for the base of the saw. And if you rip a sheet diagonally you need more length.

Takes 3 times longer and you are not going to get it placed perfectly, the line will not be perfectly straight and you will likely have a start/stop point. Remember you really cannot slide these tracks, you have to pick them up and place them.

Yeah
Never has bogged down although Keith has the TS55 and is not happy with the power.

Yeah I agree with that one but it cost me that much to hunt down the material, cut it, and thread 8 screws into it.

No doubt, IIRC Dewalt scaled thir saw the same as Festool also.

Keep in mind that if you have to move the track in the middle of a cut you probably will not get a perfectly straight line from one end of the cut to the other.

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wrote:

Ayup.
I grok the lift+move concept with the anti-skid strips on them, but why wouldn't it be easy to align the track to its previous cut for a near perfect continuance of the cut?

Hell, I've been working with Dad's old Craftsman circular saw for 20 years now, doin' the old Eveready bunny thang.

Does it take one or two pieces to join the tracks? They appear to be sold separately but it states that two are required.

Given that you'd only move the track a foot or two out of 8, I can't see how it would be that much of a problem. Not glueline, but fairly straight...
-- The most decisive actions of our life - I mean those that are most likely to decide the whole course of our future - are, more often than not, unconsidered. -- Andre Gide
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On 1/28/2012 11:48 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

That would depend on your eye sight. You typically line up with a shiny pencil mark. If you stop mid stream you have a kerf to line up with. Not saying it would be hard but time consuming to get it perfect and you won't know if it is perfect until after you make the cut. My expectations are for better than a TS cut yours may not be.

For the Festool and the most secure, 2 bars, $15 each.

Well if as you say fairly straight is all you are looking for you might be happy but as I have mentioned before I am looking for better than TS results. Moving the track at all upsets the accuracy. Not moving the track at all will give you the straightest line.
Remember these saws are not framing/construction saws, they are made to produce very very straight and good cuts.
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wrote:

I'm OK with it being a couple RCHes off. Aren't you?

OK, thanks. My $130 figure is about right, for the two connectors and an extra 55" section of track.

True.
It would be used on plywood and, hopefully/soon, foam board for signs.
-- The most decisive actions of our life - I mean those that are most likely to decide the whole course of our future - are, more often than not, unconsidered. -- Andre Gide
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On 1/28/2012 3:23 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

No.
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wrote:

OK. I'm comfy with a 60-1/2 plane to soften any small ridge, but I guess it would depend on the necessity of absolute precision, wouldn't it? Each case would be different.
-- The most decisive actions of our life - I mean those that are most likely to decide the whole course of our future - are, more often than not, unconsidered. -- Andre Gide
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On 1/28/2012 10:13 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

That is true however in my case I did not spend several hundreds of dollars for a saw that would yield slightly better results than a typical circular saw and a straight edge. I wanted equal to or better than TS performance and accuracy. And I knew that I would soon tire of having to fidget with the track if I could not make my complete cut in one pass. That I why I went the to the extra expense in the beginning so that I would get the full benefit of having this type saw. And again I am not saying that what you are thinking will be wrong for you and that my reasoning for my purposes is the solution for everyone. I just want to point out some of the things that you need to be aware of.
And as far as absolute precision is concerned I am sure that I am not getting it but from no fault of the saw so to speak. But the more little areas that can introduce error that are eliminated the less likely that small error amplifies itself several steps further along in the project.

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wrote:

Grok that. Given funding, I'd have all the goodies, too.

Bueno, bwana.

Yuppers. Projects are only as good as we are (or care to be) with the tools we have to work with.

This is true on almost all projects, too.
-- The most decisive actions of our life - I mean those that are most likely to decide the whole course of our future - are, more often than not, unconsidered. -- Andre Gide
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On 1/27/2012 8:08 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

Doh! ;~) That would make sense. But remember for ease of use you want the saw to be clear of the sheet on both ends of the panel. 110" -96" "/2 = 7" for the base of the saw. And if you rip a sheet diagonally you need more length.

Takes 3 times longer and you are not going to get it placed perfectly, the line will not be perfectly straight and you will likely have a start/stop point. Remember you really cannot slide these tracks, you have to pick them up and place them.

Yeah
Never has bogged down although Keith has the TS55 and is not happy with the power.

Yeah I agree with that one but it cost me that much to hunt down the material, cut it, and thread 8 screws into it.

No doubt, IIRC Dewalt scaled thir saw the same as Festool also.

Keep in mind that if you have to move the track in the middle of a cut you probably will not get a perfectly straight line from one end of the cut to the other.

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