OT: BP - The tip of the iceberg

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On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 09:04:17 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:

That depends on what costs are factored in. Most passenger trains did run at a loss to the railroads, although IIRC a few were profitable. But if the environmental costs are factored in, passenger trains look a lot better.
And freight trains are still the most efficient way to move freight over long distances. If we could eliminate 50% of current interstate trucking by rail shipment we'd cut out quite a bit of fuel consumption. One way to do that is to make the trucking industries pay their full share of highway construction and maintenance costs.
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

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J. Clarke wrote:

------------------------------------ Somebody forgot to tell Warren Buffet.
Lew
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On 6/18/2010 4:10 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:

Has he run a passenger railroad at a profit in the US? If so which one and for how long?
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I wrote:

------------------------------
J. Clarke wrote:

-----------------------------
For once try reading and understanding.
There was no reference to "passenger railroad" in my previous post.
Lew
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On 6/18/2010 3:46 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:

So so who is going to pay the railroads the value of "the environmental costs"?

If the tax you propose was effective then the EU would be running a higher percentage of freight via rail than does the US. In fact the opposite is the case and the EU has been trying for decades to get shippers to use rail instead of truck. They have imposed the sort of taxes you propose and the taxes don't do diddly-squat.
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On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 18:57:01 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:

I didn't know that. I guess they just pass the costs on down the line. Trying to change human behavior is a tough problem. I wonder if the effective resistance is coming from a truckers union. I'm pretty sure that would be the case here in the US.
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

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Make them higher. Do you think trucks are paying anywhere near their fair share?
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On 6/19/2010 12:13 AM, Lobby Dosser wrote:

You've missed the point--trucks in the EU pay higher taxes than trucks in the US, and the EU is more likely to use trucks than the US, so what makes you think that yet more taxes will change this?
And why do you feel that it is necessary to make such a change anyway?
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What makes you think it won't, this is not Europe.

Reduce petroleum consumption.
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On 6/20/2010 5:32 AM, Lobby Dosser wrote:

So Americans are more likely to respond to high taxes than are Europeans?

To what purpose?
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If you have to ask, you need more educating than I'm willing to do.
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wrote:

It used to be done.

Ditto.
If fuel prices are high enough, it will

BNSF alone caies 40% of the nation's freight.

Japan. Europe. China. All already do this for passenger travel. We are not the only ones on the planet.

Doable right now. Better batteries would make things easier. Run hybrids.

They will be and RSN.

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Batteries aren't going to work too well pulling produce or flying airplanes.
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wrote:

Do you mean pulling produce out of the ground, or pulling it across country? If the former, it could be done but natural gas would be better at this time.If the latter, electrify the rail lines.
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Cross country.

CNG? You must be joking.

Nope. Rail will never get it to market before it spoils. Rail won't get it around the world, either.
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wrote:

Not at all. The US has a large supply.

It already does.

No, but ships do.
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So what? It's still can't be made dense enough to be usable for transportation.

Wrong. They even fly the stuff.

Not produce.
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wrote:

Pulling crops out of the ground is not transportation.

Ever heard of "refrigerator cars"?

Yep. Ate oranges and bananas as a child in Scotland. They don't grow anywhere in the UK. Tell me I don't have to explain that the UK is a group of islands ...
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On 6/20/2010 5:38 AM, Lobby Dosser wrote:

You're both loons. Natural gas works fine for transportation. Dunno whether they still do it with all the electronic engine controls and whatnot that they'd have to deal with today, but it used to be that the first thing any self-respecting gas company did with any vehicle they bought was convert it to run on natural gas, and they'd do the same for any customer's vehicle for a price.

You don't cook, do you? Some things can be kept refrigerated, others can't.

Some kinds of produce will survive that kind of treatment, others won't.
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