O/T What are the real truths? What is happening right under our nose?

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Renata wrote:

I don't know why it wouldn't be the whole story - if it's not, somebody is going to the slammer. I also don't know why they would cry publicly as corporate income taxes run almost the same rate for all big corporations. By the time you add in federal and state gasoline taxes (not to mention Exxon-Mobil employees income taxes), who do think is making the more money from Exxon-Mobil's business - Exxon-Mobil or guvmint?
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com...
Well dont forget either that govt is also getting taxes at the pump per gallon. I dont know the exact number but I had heard that govt actually makes more per gallon from taxes than the oil company.
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depictureboy wrote:

That's what I was referring to when I mention "federal and state gasoline tax" - currently averaging 47 cents per gallon. And since any corporation figures income tax as a cost of doing business, we rather than Exxon-Mobil pay their $30 billion income tax. If they get hit with a "windfall profits tax", they will simply raise the price of their goods and we will pick up the tab.
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The federal tax is $.18 per gallon. All other taxes are state and local.
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Hank wrote:

Yes, that's what I said - federal and state averages 47 cents per gallon. Since federal is 18.6 cents for gasoline (24.6 cents for diesel), the average state tax is 29 cents per gallon.
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com...
The taxes you see on the income tax line of the income statement are ONLY taxes based on income, not fuel taxes or payroll taxes.
Dave - Parkville
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Dave - Parkville, MD wrote:

If you re-read my post, I think you'll find that's the essence of what I said.
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s.com...
Agreed. Skipped over too many.
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You might want to check your numbers. $30 billion is 75% (OK 3/4) of $72 billion? Try again. We live in a ' Capitalist Society'. Making a profit is what all of us that wish to remain in business try to do. I think we should stop subsidies to oil companies. They no longer drill nor do they build refineries. Perhaps a windfall profits tax would be proper. Any profit over 5% roi should be subject to an 80% tax. There goes most of my income for the year (past years).
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So you blame oil companies for not drilling or building refineries?
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Leon wrote:

From ANWR to the North Dakota oil fields, there is sufficient oil to let us tell the OPECers to go pound sand. But ... we might inconvenience some caribou (even though the plan is to use only 2000 acres out of several million), or we might endanger some previously unknown "endangered" microbe or left-handed kangaroo rat. We have gas prices going up now because of the required cafe blends for each specific city that requires refinery shutdown and reconfiguration every year. Only when people get angry enough at the shenanigans going on to thwart production and distribution is this problem going to get solved. Instead, right now we have self-righteous earth-worshipping luddites preventing progress and trying to force people to buy indulgences to atone for peoples' environmental sins. Neither of which is going to solve the needs and will only exacerbate the problem. It will, however have the effect of providing lots of money and power to the people espousing these policies (who, will of course not alter their lifestyle -- that is for the "little people") and lower the quality of life and remove freedoms from the rest of us. Until and unless people wake up to this sham, I'm afraid we're in for a lot more of the same.
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

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OTOH, if we burn everybody else's oil up first, we would control the world supply...
--
FF

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"Fred the Red Shirt" wrote

That's maybe the saving grace ... the proven reserves we don't tap now remain for more sane times, or for the Chinese when we're gone.
--
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Last update: 3/27/08
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Considering that Exxon estimates that we have only used 1/3 of the world reserves I don't think I am going to be around to see us be in control. We'll only be around to see us go broke.
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What matters is not how much we've used, it's how fast we are using it up.
Last I heard, the Canada tar sands alone were enough to keep the US supplied at the present rate for 'a long time' (e.g. I don't remember the number, but it was like 50 years or more).
The OPEC quotas are based, at least in part, on each member nation's remaining reserves, which encourages each to exaggerate those estimates.
I wonder if there is any similar advantage for Exxon?
--
FF


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On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 10:34:44 -0700, Mark & Juanita

Uh,... nope. Cafe blends have been around for years. Prices hadn't "surged" like they are these days.
the gist from the article: "You see very time the Fed lowers interest rates, it weakens the dollar and the Fed has been very active slashing these rates in order to keep the big banks afloat. That dollar devaluation then raises gasoline prices at the pump, about 8 cents per gallon per each 25 percentage point cut by the Federal Reserve.
Since September there have been 12 of these cuts made - eventually costing America 96 cents extra for each gallon of gas."
entire article below
-R
The Fed pushes gasoline prices even higher by Jackie Corr | April 23, 2008
Butte, Montana | As we well know the price of a gallon of gasoline keeps going up. And nobody sees an end to this surge let alone a drop in price. For just this past weekend the price of oil per barrel jumped again to an all time record high of $117.01. The New York Times commented that "what was striking about this latest milestone was what didn't happen: there was no shortage of oil, no sudden embargo, no exporter turning off its spigot." But there is something going on and it means more bad news for the American public. And that is the Fed's Ben Bernanke has been pulling out all the stops to save Wall Street from paying for the mess they made while keeping all the profits. On Sunday in the Washington Post, the conservative writer George Will said Americans should tell the congress the free ride is over and it is time to start dismantling Wall Street Socialism. In Will's words, "the Fed has no mandate to be the dealmaker for Wall Street socialism. The Fed's mission is to preserve the currency as a store of value by preventing inflation." But that is not the way that George Bush, Treasury head Hank Paulson, Bernanke and most of the congress see it. You see very time the Fed lowers interest rates, it weakens the dollar and the Fed has been very active slashing these rates in order to keep the big banks afloat. That dollar devaluation then raises gasoline prices at the pump, about 8 cents per gallon per each 25 percentage point cut by the Federal Reserve. Since September there have been 12 of these cuts made - eventually costing America 96 cents extra for each gallon of gas. Between September 18, 2007 and March 18, 2008, the Federal fund rate was lowered from 5.25% to 2.25% and the discount rate was lowered from 5.75% to 2.50%. Check the dates: In Butte on October 3, 2007 the price of a regular gallon of gas was $2.80. On New Years Day $3.06. St Patrick's Day $3.25. As of this writing the price is $3.50 ($3.49.9) a gallon and it will go even higher in the coming weeks, roughly $3.75 a gallon, as a result of the Fed's giving in to Wall Street. Of course, the Fed has yet to mention this gasoline price surge in statements concerning those rate cuts for Wall Street and for good reason. As George Will pointed out, continued dollar deflation means higher and higher prices for the American public and even more $ billions for Wall Street investment banks like Goldman Sachs. And there's more. Before the current Fed cuts in the interest and discount window mentioned above run their course, regular gasoline prices will have reached $3.76 per gallon according to the Fed formula, nearly a dollar increase since last October. And like the moon follows the sun, a higher price for gas further pushes up already rising food prices. So it's no wonder people want change and the hell with experience. "Bailout Ben" Bernanke, Hank Paulson (a former Goldman Sach's CEO) and of course, Alan Greenspan, the former Fed guy, are long on experience and look where they got us. And we might also remember the present disaster originated in the unregulated Wall Street investment banks who were set free to plunder and loot after Bill Clinton and Robert Rubin in 1999 deep-sixed the old New Deal banking law, Glass-Steagall. And what have they learned? Needless to say, the Wall Street guys and gals are still calling for more tax cuts even with a war going on that is further bankrupting us.
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Renata wrote:

Uh, yes. Every spring at changeover time, gas prices have surged. Look up comments last year at about this same time. In the past, there has always been a run-up prior to Memorial Day and the summer driving season, but with the advent of cafe blends, the runup has been larger and higher.
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

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On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 22:39:12 -0700, Mark & Juanita

Surging since September (well, really, longer, but we'll just focus here for the moment). We ain't seen surges like this for some time if ever. Yet, we've had the annual, actually, bi-annual, blend changeover for some time. Hmmm.
According to you, it's ALL the environmentalists' fault for wanting to protect the caribou and have clean air.
Oh, and maybe if the oil companies would keep the refineries they already have open (closed one recently in CA) they wouldn't need to build new ones.
R
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Renata wrote:

The facts just don't bear you out. Looking at <http://www.eia.doe.gov/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/wrgp/mogas_history.html> and breaking down the data into weekly segments for each year, then demeaning the data for each year shows a price band for each year that stays within a band of 80% to 120% of average price for the year. Highest price tends to be about week 22. Biggest "surge" actually occurred in 2005 with prices jumping to 135 percent of yearly average in week 36, a true anomaly compared to the rest of the data. De-meaned weekly relative changes have similar characteristics.
The "surging since September 2007 doesn't match the facts either. Gas prices dropped from June to October, rose slightly from October through December, dropped slightly from December through February 2008 and started rising again through the present. I'll post the spreadsheet on abpww.

I would lay 95% of this at the environmentalist's feet. Please, spare me the idea that if people want fuel we want dirty air.

Any idea why they closed the one in CA?
--
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On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:30:29 -0700, Mark & Juanita

Interesting charts. What I noticed is that prices seem to reach a high point around Sept., and either hold fairly steady or fall a bit thru about March, when they start on the upswing again. Exceptions are, for example, in 2003, presumably due to the run up to O.I.L. This lines up with the increased demand during summer. However, this past year, prices started rising and continued to do so. Yet, demand is supposedly down.
When was the last time prices rose 100% over the course of a year? Or, so abruptly in a few months?

I see. The dollar dropping 50-60% in value has nothing to do with it, at all, at all? Agitating in the M.E. - nada? Seriously?

No. Heard it on one of the news broadcasts. Caught tail end of story. Haven't been able to find anything about it on google (albeit, a cursory search) so maybe the rest of the story was kinda important.
Renata
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