Now Which Miter gauge??

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On 6/3/2011 11:23 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
Darn! must'a snipped too much.. ;~(
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wrote:

Ah rectum so. ;)
-- Remember, in an emergency, dial 1911.
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wrote:

Oops, itchy trigger finger.
I meant to add "I see that it's hard to teach you old dogs new tricks."
-- Remember, in an emergency, dial 1911.
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On 6/3/2011 9:06 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

Old dog and new tricks? Wot?? I know those guys!!
http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/ODNT.jpg
(Damn, that was over 30 years ago ...)
:(
--
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Last update: 4/15/2010
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<insert mournful howl here>
-- Experience is a good teacher, but she send in terrific bills. -- Minna Thomas Antrim
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On Wed, 01 Jun 2011 17:21:21 -0500, Leon wrote:

I don't recall the model #, but I have the Incra with the notch for every degree. I bought it without a fence and made my own. I'm happy with it.
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

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JessEm is nice, but so is the Incra 1000HD.

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On 6/2/2011 8:26 PM, snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:

JessEm was my first thought, unfortunately their miter gauge is no longer in production.
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But you want it to be, um, bisexual (go either way). If that's a requirement, you wouldn't like the JessEm anyway. I almost always work to the right of my left-tilt, so that hasn't been a problem.
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On 6/2/2011 11:08 PM, snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Yup, almost equally use on both sides several times a day. I have not seen the Jeesem in detail lately as far as the fence is concerned. Thanks for pointing that out.
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The issue is the extension fence, but I think that'll be a problem with any of them. Take that out (and ignore the tape) and it should work.
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On 6/4/2011 2:11 PM, snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Actually my concern is how short the guide bar is when the gauge is behind a wide board, Length of the fence is not a concern. The Incra miter gauges have Incradabley short guide bars, as much as 8" shorter than some of the competition.
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I thought they were short too, but with the adjustments they fit extremely well. I don't think making them longer would be much of an improvement. With the 'T' slot tang on the front it would just be an incentive to bend it. ;-)
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Leonidas:
Tell you what, spec me on how wide/thick a board you have in mind and I'll load something on the Incra and give you feedback.
Regards,
Edward Hennessey
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On 6/5/2011 12:54 PM, Edward Hennessey wrote:

That is mighty generous of you sir. Thank you.
Here is what I am thinking. I try not to cut anything with the miter gauge that would require the gauge fence to go behind the front edge of the TS.
The 1000 series have pretty shore guide bars. My concern is that the guide bar might not wobble left or right a bit until the rest of the track feeds into he fence. Basically can the miter gauge be wiggled back and forth when half the of the guide bar is not engaged with the miter slot?
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L:
My pleasure.
I'll check tomorrow and report.
To review, aside from the terminal metal T on the guide bar there are split Teflon washers adjustable by machine screws. Mine are expanded for a snug fit that does not impede bar movement and, hopefully, won't invite their rapid wear.
Because vertical play might be a subsequent question, I'll load the unit with a wider board in your check position , as well as noting unloaded performance.
Frankly, the basic miter assembly original to the machine was good and memory says it has a guide bar of similar length to the Incra, without the final T. That will win a trial too for comparison.
One of the books I swallowed recently suggests remedies for tightening simple guide bars worth note. A drill press would be advisable as an installation tool.
At equidistant points spaced alternately on both sides along the center line of the guide bar thickness, drill and install Teflon or brass screws. Cut off the heads. Turn them in with a pliers/vice grip until they fit into the miter bar slot and evenly protrude according to your preference for the degree of snugness desired. Sounds like a snappy approach to a worn miter slot.
Regards,
Edward Hennessey
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On 6/5/2011 11:07 PM, Edward Hennessey wrote:

Now I realize that the Incra probably has a guide bar slot adjustment just ahead of the fence position and farther forward towards the end of the bar. How many in the span I do not know, and I am not going to argue with your results as you have the proof and I only have speculation to the possible results. Generally speaking the more guide bar adjustments the less likely that there will be any left/right pivoting. The 1000 series has 6 adjustments which seems adequate if they are all on one side of the bar. If there are three on one side and three on the other maybe not as good. Anyway with approximately half of the adjustments behind the fence you potentially loose half the slop adjustments.
Now having said that Incra had been making these things for a long time and one would think that my concerns are a non issue. But then again the Osbourne miter gauge had been around a while but still as observed on Friday the latest version continues to have lots of slop when the gauge is set on the left side miter slot, the gauge is set to 45 degrees with the telescoping adjustment mechanism extend to its farthest point. The opposite 45 degree setting is nice and tight but that telescoping bar is not fully extended for that particular 45 degree setting. A sales guy at Woodcraft was showing mt the Osbourn and I told him that I thought the Osbourn was a pretty good gauge except for that one deal killer inherent flaw. He said that he uses and owns the Osbourn miter gauge and then I told him about the problem and "showed" him how the gauge has that slop problem. The look on his face went from proud to shocked as he grabbed the miter gauge and double checked what I showed him. Unfortunately what makes the Osbourn gauge strong also makes it weak at certain miter settings. BUT ANYWAY....
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On Mon, 06 Jun 2011 06:44:07 -0500, Leon wrote:

Years ago, Incra came out with the Miter Slider line. They only had two slot adjustments, one at each end, which made them pretty well useless any time either end was off the table. I did a quick check and found that the 18" model is still like that. The 25" model has 3. Oh well.
Myself, I'm kind of partial to these:
http://www.ptreeusa.com/miter_t_bar_detail.htm
Shouldn't be that hard to replace the bar on a miter gauge with one of these. So far I've just used them for jigs like sliding tables so I haven't tried.
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

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L:
Approximately measured tests were conducted a little after the sun awoke.
Observations.
*The horizontal terminal T on the end of the guide bar is not adjustable for expansion. It has visible side-to-side and vertical clearances.
*The 5 Teflon expansion washers are located on alternate bar sides with two paired towards the bar front, two paired near the front of the of the fence (the forward fence face splits one of the washers) and one rear of the fence.
*With the fence/protractor off the table, twisting and purely horizontal play were evident. The weight of the unsupported components are a prime factor in accentuating the twist.
*The table space in front of the 10" blade cut is about 9.75". The miter assembly gains adequate purchase on the table to cut a board about 9.5" in width with a 10" blade.
*Pushing a wide board off the table front, stability of the Incra unit appears best maintained by slightly tilting the forward bar upward to give the nose T contact with the miter slot while applying a more noticeable rightward twist to counter the leftward fence/protractor mass.
As the Incra moves forward to table contact (even with a forward table bevel), the necessity for the rightward twist affirms itself to avoid fence collision with the table.
*With all that weight back of the table and shifted to one side, I'm honestly unsure whether a longer bar would be corrective.
The OEM fence guide on the front of the trial table saw would be an obstruction to contriving any support for the Incra off the table. Instead of reinventing the wheel, if your interest persists, the Incra people should have good input on this and the whole issue.
Also, I tried the OEM miter guage. It suffered from more horizontal slop off and on the table. Without the big fence, the twist was less. After I fooled with it to refine function a long time ago, it cut close enough to dead on that I didn't need a micrometer in the argument.
The Incra is better, the fence is super once on the table and I haven't cut at enough fat boards to give a firm opinion on what can be attained.
That's the qualified skinny.
Regards,
Edward Hennessey
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On 6/6/2011 4:11 PM, Edward Hennessey wrote:

Thank you very much Henry. I really do appreciate all the effort you went to and the information.
Thanks again.
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