Home Depot Plywood Quality

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Heh, good point. I had a friend who lived just outside of Portland for a while and sometimes, even having a car wasn't a good idea, you needed a boat. :)
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On Mon, 28 May 2007 20:07:52 GMT, Brian Henderson

What's funny is that my commuting bike is named after Portland. <G>
A very bicycle friendly city, even if the weather isn't. Rain isn't as difficult for cycling as many think.
<http://www.portlandonline.com/transportation/index.cfm?a=hbied&c Þibc>
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Nothing difficult about it if you don't mind arriving wet.

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On May 26, 2:29 pm, Dave Balderstone

Question would be, where would the yield of that huge increase go? Who knows, maybe we can start over and move stuff the efficient way again? Like trains? What's with all them damned trucks on the road?
The farmers could simply say: "If you want this farking grain, come and get it, you asshats!!"
But I'm afraid you're right, Dave... it would kill them first.
On the imported goods front, maybe we'd get off our collective asses and start making our own plywood again?
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That would require Parliament to do something. Fat chance.

And there's a shortage of something like 30,000 drivers in Canada...

That would be a good thing. There are a whole lot of mills that would restart.
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Dave Balderstone wrote:
> In some places. Here in Canada, it would have a nasty economic impact > because of the huge distances we have to move goods, both imported and > for export. It would kill western Canadian farmers.
You know, I doubt that.
What you are suggesting is that the way of life of the Canadian grain farmer would be put in peril, and they would just give up and quit farming.
When the human animal's survival is attacked, they can be very resourceful and adaptable.
My money would be on the farmers.
Lew
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As an aside, I work for the largest agricultural newspaper in Canada. I understand the resilience of the farmer, but I also understand the market and financial pressures they're under here in the prairies.
I'm not suggesting they'd give up. I'm suggesting they'd be forced into bankruptcy.
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Dave Balderstone wrote:
> As an aside, I work for the largest agricultural newspaper in Canada. I > understand the resilience of the farmer, but I also understand the > market and financial pressures they're under here in the prairies. > > I'm not suggesting they'd give up. I'm suggesting they'd be forced into > bankruptcy.
Not all will survive, that's life; however, most can, and $10/gal gasoline is on the horizon, but it won't happen over night.
There is time, but we can't waste it.
Time to start addressing the problem, IMHO.
As the cartoonist Walt Kelly voiced thru his Pogo comic strip, "We have met the enemy, and it is us."
Lew
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Lew Hodgett wrote: | Dave Balderstone wrote: | | > I'm not suggesting they'd give up. I'm suggesting they'd be | forced into > bankruptcy. | | Not all will survive, that's life; however, most can, and $10/gal | gasoline is on the horizon, but it won't happen over night. | | There is time, but we can't waste it. | | Time to start addressing the problem, IMHO.
Hmmm. "Addressing the problem" - does that mean 'talking it to death' or does it mean 'develop a plan and take action'?
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto /
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warrants a steering committee in order to fund a research group in order to see if we can synchronise all the lobbies and focus groups to make discoveries to establish re-electabilty. After they write a proposal to investigate the ramifications due to financial and environmental impact of any and all proposals...when we get that all ironed out, it's time to move on to the next big step: we drum up support by printing leaflets which we will hand out at all the White Castle outlets. THEN we develop a plan. As long as it doesn't impact the Slippy-Bellied Snail population and/or the spotted owls. Oh.. and we need to hire some lawyers.
Is that what you mean, Morris?
o¿o
(tongue firmly planted in cheek)
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Robatoy wrote:
| || or does it mean 'develop a plan and take action'? || | But FIRST we do a feasibility study to see if the desired path | warrants a steering committee in order to fund a research group in | order to see if we can synchronise all the lobbies and focus groups | to make discoveries to establish re-electabilty. After they write a | proposal to investigate the ramifications due to financial and | environmental impact of any and all proposals...when we get that all | ironed out, it's time to move on to the next big step: we drum up | support by printing leaflets which we will hand out at all the White | Castle outlets. THEN we develop a plan. As long as it doesn't impact | the Slippy-Bellied Snail population and/or the spotted owls. Oh.. | and we need to hire some lawyers. | | Is that what you mean, Morris? | | o¿o | | (tongue firmly planted in cheek)
Tongue in cheek or not, there's enough truth in that to be downright discouraging.
'develop a plan and take action' ::= 'talk it to death'
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto /
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wrote:

OTOH, there are times when that is *not* a bad idea.
I've seen the result of too many times when someone says, "It's time to quit analyzing and time to *do* something." 9 times out of 10 that *something* is exactly the wrong thing, but by golly we *did* something!
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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Mark & Juanita wrote: | On Sun, 27 May 2007 23:32:03 -0500, "Morris Dovey"
| || Robatoy wrote:
||| |||| or does it mean 'develop a plan and take action'? |||| ||| But FIRST we do a feasibility study to see if the desired path ||| warrants a steering committee in order to fund a research group in ||| order to see if we can synchronise all the lobbies and focus ||| groups to make discoveries to establish re-electabilty. After ||| they write a proposal to investigate the ramifications due to ||| financial and environmental impact of any and all ||| proposals...when we get that all ironed out, it's time to move on ||| to the next big step: we drum up support by printing leaflets ||| which we will hand out at all the White Castle outlets. THEN we ||| develop a plan. As long as it doesn't impact the Slippy-Bellied ||| Snail population and/or the spotted owls. Oh.. and we need to ||| hire some lawyers. ||| ||| Is that what you mean, Morris? ||| ||| o¿o ||| ||| (tongue firmly planted in cheek) || || Tongue in cheek or not, there's enough truth in that to be || downright discouraging. || || 'develop a plan and take action' ::= 'talk it to death' | | OTOH, there are times when that is *not* a bad idea. | | I've seen the result of too many times when someone says, "It's | time to quit analyzing and time to *do* something." 9 times out of | 10 that *something* is exactly the wrong thing, but by golly we | *did* something!
So have I - and in nearly every case it's because no one asked: "What's the worst that could happen?"
We might consider: "What's the worst that could happen if we continue to do what we've been doing?" The answer to this question may help us to define the level of risk acceptable in alternative solutions. Let's stipulate that there is no choice without /some/ associated risk.
It's also worth asking if a large problem can be subdivided so as to be solved piecewise, and which of the partial solutions offer no downside.
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto /
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Morris Dovey wrote:

Good question, why do you ask?
Lew
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Lew Hodgett wrote: | Morris Dovey wrote: | || Hmmm. "Addressing the problem" - does that mean 'talking it to || death' or does it mean 'develop a plan and take action'? | | Good question, why do you ask?
Ever the optimist, I keep hoping that "addressing the problem" will mean more than just endlessly (re)specifying the problem.
Robatoy summarized the solution process fairly well and reminded me that it's not that we lack practical solutions, it's that we lack the will to implement.
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto /
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Morris Dovey wrote:

Nobody wants to see their ox gored.
As soon as people can see personal gain, it will happen.
Lew
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Lew Hodgett wrote: | Morris Dovey wrote: | || Robatoy summarized the solution process fairly well and reminded me || that it's not that we lack practical solutions, it's that we lack || the will to implement. | | Nobody wants to see their ox gored. | | As soon as people can see personal gain, it will happen.
That doesn't bode well. Consider the lessons of Katrina...
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto /
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Would that be the "don't build a large city below sea level" lesson or another one?
todd
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todd wrote:
| || Lew Hodgett wrote: ||| Morris Dovey wrote: ||| |||| Robatoy summarized the solution process fairly well and reminded |||| me that it's not that we lack practical solutions, it's that we |||| lack the will to implement. ||| ||| Nobody wants to see their ox gored. ||| ||| As soon as people can see personal gain, it will happen. || || That doesn't bode well. Consider the lessons of Katrina... | | Would that be the "don't build a large city below sea level" lesson | or another one?
All of them. New Orleans did not, of course, begin as a large city when the French established a trading outpost near the mouth of the Mississippi. I'm ignorant of the period in which New Orleans acquired "large city" status.
Let's begin with that point in time when we first knew for certain that the levees were inadequate to perform the function for which they'd been constructed, and work our way forward from there. Perhaps we will learn enough to do better when, for example, the "Big One" hits the Los Angeles area.
Let's enumerate the lessons (and there are /so/ many) without consideration of the political entities involved. The lessons to be learned won't be made any more clear by allowing their examination to devolve into finger pointing.
There are a lot of lessons (at least hundreds!) to be learned, and one of them is that when major interests are in conflict, /someone's/ ox is going to be gored, and wanting or not wanting that to happen is not necessarily going to affect what happens to the ox.
Another is that as long as we see life as a zero sum game, relying on stakeholders to prevent ox-gorings is only wishful thinking. Some stakeholders delight in seeing others' oxes gored.
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto /
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Of course it was politics and people that got them there. Engineers told 'em over and over what fools they were. Not that N.O. is unique, of course. Most of the Yellow river and a couple of others in China are "elevated" too.
What we need is a good dictator to get the public transportation running on time and get those people out of the way of the river (and the woods, and the owls and the wolves...) so the greater good is served. Where's Joe when we need 'im?
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