Frameless Cabinetry

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seeking information related to european frameless cabinetry...
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Try Danny Proulx's "Build your own kitchen cabinets". He does both framed and frameless. Very good book. I got it through http://www.woodworkersbookclub.com , but I am sure you can get it at any bookstore or try your library.
Lars

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On Thu, 12 May 2005 23:46:57 GMT, "Marshall Boykin"
Having installed a few different brands and not really caring for the look, my opinion of them is somewhat negative.
There are certain challenges with installation as you have no chance to trim the stiles (since there aren't any) to fit an out of plum wall. You also can't mold against a wall without leaving the cabinet away from the wall which kinda defeats the purpose of a frame less cabinet. So, in these cases, you end up fitting some kind of filler to the wall which also detracts from the frame less look. Another place for concern is when a lower cabinet with a drawer is against a wall that may have a trimmed opening close to the cabinet run. Imagine walking through the door of a bath with a vanity to your left. If the vanity has a drawer on the left side and the opening is too close to the vanity, the drawer will hit the casing. In this case again, you have to set the cabinet away from the wall. Lastly, the face frame of a cabinet adds considerable strength to the four sides of the carcass. Most of the frame less cabinets we have installed are made with 3/4" particle board covered with melamine or something similar. The bottom of the cabinet IMHO will sag over time since you can grab it and easily flex it without much effort. Try that with a traditional framed cabinet. Other than those minor issues....I like them fine.
Mike O.
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I suggest you start by learning everything there is to know about the 32 mm system. Excellent cabinets are possible with the European cabinets. Many of the issues with that cabinet style are resolved at the time of design. I found the best way to deal with those cabinets was to build a 4" high kick frame which I would level/scribe to the floor and hug the wall. The wall rail would be narrower than the front rail and wouldn't touch the floor. It would be screwed against the studs when levelled. Then I would park the cabinets on that kick, eliminating all hassles with the cabinets lining up. Screw them all together as a big unit and push them against the wall, dropping shims where the screws would go into the studs. There is no need for the cabinets to be attached to the kick.
If you make your cabinets 23.5" deep, you'll get excellent yield from your sheet goods as well. Uppers @ 11.5" depth
Rob.
PS, the 32 mm system works best if your zero line is the top of your base cabinets. All dimensions either go up by 32 mm increments from there, or down. Now that self levelling lasers are so cheap, you can put that line higher. YMMV
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Robatoy wrote:

32
cabinets.
of
a
the
wouldn't
and
the
put
Good reference: Building Frameless Kitchen Cabinets, by Danny Proulx.
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On Thu, 12 May 2005 23:46:57 GMT, "Marshall Boykin"
It's crap, ugly and you Americans do it far better with face frames.
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Now don't hold back Andy...
Andy Dingley wrote:

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On Fri, 13 May 2005 14:50:37 GMT, Pat Barber
You guys only see a rare few new installs. As they're unusual, they're at the higher end of things. Round here every cheap flat has a kitchen full of this stuff - it doesn't last, the materials are plain nasty and it looks shabby in no time at all.
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Andy Dingley wrote:

I agree, but there's a pisspot full of it around, and more is built daily.
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com says...

The reason Europe has had so much for so long frameless cabinetry is because of the high price of wood. We're catching up fast; go to any "Grand Rapids" type furniture store and you will be amazed how little wood is used. The same model is true for cars, with the high price of gas we will all soon be driving Minis, although I must admit the latest iteration of the car is kinda cute.
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What, the Cooper? Man, those things are uglyyyyyyyyyyyy - they look like a flathead catfish. Just need some curb feelers on the front end to complete the picture.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
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On 13 May 2005 07:55:45 -0700, the inscrutable "Charlie Self"

Like RAP, attorneys, and politicians, the sheer _quantity_ of something doesn't make it RIGHT or likeable.
------ We're born hungry, wet, 'n naked, and it gets worse from there. - http://diversify.com Website Application Programming -
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wrote:

I used a modified version of the 32mm system for a lot of my casework.
The carcases were either joined with offset tongue and groove joints as described in Levine's book, Making Kitchen Cabinets", or were butt joined and connected via biscuits, with pocket screws providing enough grab so that clamps didn't need to be left on the box once it was glued up.
It provides a quick and effective way to make the box and for built in cabinetry it is just fine.
To me, the heart of the system is the hardware and the line boring that goes along with it.
The better quality euro hinges allow for a good deal of adjustment and flexibility in design.
The boxes, with their attendant overlay doors can be framed by molding that stands proud of the edges of the box, and the use of pilasters between the boxes, set to the front plane of the doors, or even a bit proud will, in conjunction with a cornice and a bottom mold, make the result indistinguishable from a face framed cabinet.
This gives a cabinetmaker a system he can use to create cabinets quickly and for a reasonable price, with the ability to tart things up according to the desires of the customer.
The full extension with one inch over travel drawer slides are an absolute marvel and, if you follow the requirements of the line boring system, are very easy to install accurately.
For a number of years I did the line boring with a template made from pegboard that had holes drilled according to the system and this gave me good accuracy and the ability to drill only the holes needed for the particular job.
I liked it well enough to use it for my own kitchen and I don't think that a casual observer could tell that the cabinets are not made in a more traditional manner.
Certainly there are shoddy expressions of the form but that is not a necessary result of using the system.
If I find a bit of extra energy this weekend, I'll post some pictures.
Tom Watson - WoodDorker tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email) http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)
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wrote:

BIG SNIP

Please advise where I can find more detailed information on "line boring system" Thanks....

John Hewitt, Malaga, Spain
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sez the dude who drinks warm beer. The Americans drink COLD beer so they can tell apart from horse-piss.
*ducking*
This Dutch Canadian has built quite a few of both styles. Apples and oranges. Totally different look/customer. I developed a taste for stark, straight lines and book-matched veneer doors..all on one plane. Frankly, I got bored with the raised panel look (with the exception of a proper shaker).
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<<sez the dude who drinks warm beer. >>
British car owner joke. Do you know why the English drink warm beer? They have lucas refrigerators.
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A tribute to the Duke of Darkness! That's a new one to me.
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Please! Electrics by Lucas. Prince of Darkness!

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On Thu, 12 May 2005 23:46:57 GMT, "Marshall Boykin"

Take a ride over to www.woodweb.com and use "32mm system" as a search term on that site.
You'll find a lot of informed discussion about what you are interested in.
Tom Watson - WoodDorker tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email) http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)
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I like the framless cabinetry much better... it's all a matter of taste!
I made my kitchen cabinet last year, it as relly easy.
What are you looking for?
Christian

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